(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: A while back, I made a thread about Christian morality having bad incentives. It was mainly a thread to say that Christianity doesn't compel you to do good, but rather to swear an oath of fealty. Throughout the thread, at least one apologist told me that you can't game the system to sin knowing that you will be forgiven later, because that isn't a non-repentant lifestyle. I wasn't really trying to make that point in the thread, but I actually realized something: you totally can game the system like that. Here we go:There is a difference between you can (that something is possible) and that you can't (that something is possible but shouldn't be done).
(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: So, according to the Bible, there is only one unforgivable sin (blaspheming the Holy Spirit). That tautologically means that every other sin is forgivable. So, if I have a moment of weakness and sin, I can ask for forgiveness and repent. Christians will agree with that statement; it's part and parcel to their world view.
Premise accepted.
(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: Now, if I plan to sin knowing that I can ask for forgiveness later, sin, and then ask for forgiveness, the very act of planning to game the system is a forgivable sin. When I ask for forgiveness, all I have to do is apologize both for the sin and for planning to game the system.Premise accepted.
(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: Now, apologists will understandably take issue with that second part, and I get that. It looks super immoral, but that's not because the person gaming the system is especially heinous, but because their morality system is just that bad. Look at the system. What's the difference between spontaneous and planned sin?Premise not accepted. You haven't appropriately correlated 'gaming the system' with 'immoral behavior' with 'poor moral system.' To further explain. If gaming the system isn't an immoral [or heinous] act then there's nothing wrong with doing it and it therefore wouldn't be a part of the moral system at all. If gaming the system is immoral, then it would be a part of the moral system and it would be wrong to do.
(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: 1) If you believe you have to be truly contrite to be absolved of sin, would anyone ever get into heaven?No.
(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: I don't think anyone feels that bad about everything they do. What if you take God's name in vain seconds before being killed in a car crash?
Sin's are forgiven at the cross (Colossians 2:14) not at the time of confession.
(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: It would seem if the system were strict enough to weed out those trying to game it, that people legitimately trying to follow the system would get weeded out, too.How so?
(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: 2) If you believe that the act of trying to game the system is somehow worse than simply spontaneously sinning, it's special pleading.Not a valid use of 'special pleading.' It would be special pleading if there were different level's of 'wrongness' for the same exact sin, or different punishments for the same sin.
(February 16, 2015 at 12:34 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: Unless you can show me some scripture to show that this is clearly the case, it's likely an ad hoc assertion to make the system look less pointless. I mean, yes, you can make the point that so long as you plan to sin, you aren't repentant, and you're playing with fire. You could be hit by a truck at any time, so why take that risk, but see my point above. How much are you allowed to "spontaneously" sin before you stop being repentant? I submit that setting those goal posts to allow "normal" levels of sin into heaven but to exclude premeditated sin is just ad hoc special pleading.Salvation is through faith alone, it is not by works so that no man may boast.
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?