(March 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: There are many unpopular beliefs and facts that are believed because of a preponderance of evidence in their favor, not because the belief is popular. Many popular beliefs have been abandoned do to evidence against them. Considering many atheists equate belief in God with belief in Santa Claus how is it they’re not gaining any traction?Here is where you fail.
Perhaps a history lesson would come in handy, but I'm a poor lecturer.
Beliefs are abandoned because the ruling classes impose new beliefs on their populace.
Here's a quote from a book I'm reading:
"'Religion and law among our masses must be one and the same', his father said. 'An act of disobedience must be a sin and require religious penalties.
This will have the dual benefit of bringing both greater obedience and greater bravery. We must depend not so much on the bravery of individuals, you see, as upon the bravery of a whole population.'"
Sounds familiar?
The Romans imposed their religion which mimicked the greek one... then they imposed the catholic.... later on, the arabs imposed islam on a large swath of territory.
Other popular beliefs have been squashed in wars, as the losing side believed in the "wrong" gods.
(March 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: If the existence of God were as implausible as the existence of Santa Claus then there should be as many atheists as those who don’t believe in Santa Claus. If atheists know something that leads them to conclude belief in God is equivalent to belief in Santa they are keeping it a well-guarded secret or they are dismal failures in communication. The question is what are atheists doing wrong?Atheists are simply not believing in whatever god-like belief the surrounding society tries to convince them of.
And that is all they say...
Some go a bit further and point the flaws in those beliefs, but believers are seldom receptive to hear it... they just dismiss it as "god works in mysterious ways" or something like that...
The mind of the believer is a very twisted thing...
(March 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Why aren’t they expressing their viewpoint in a way that actually persuades people?It takes a special kind of person to convince others of something that is bullshit.... these are called con artists.
I suspect some atheists enjoy being contrary and being part of a small often loathed minority. Some atheists just like to think there much smarter than most and therefore their belief isn’t for the gullible masses.
It takes a lot of effort to counter-con someone... even more so if there's no evidence that what the con-artist is selling is existent... if it is just a feeling, a desire, a wish.
How can you prove that something doesn't exist? Something that has been devised to be non-material... how? Impossible!
(March 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: How would I approach the debate were I an atheist?You lack understanding as to what a "weak atheist" is.
1. Drop the ‘I’m a weak-atheist’ strategy.
I’d go further and criticize those who refer to themselves as weak atheists. If atheists can’t convince others who call themselves atheists that God doesn’t exist just as an opinion and not as a fact, how can they possibly convince someone who believes in the existence of God that God doesn’t exist? I know many atheists refer to themselves as weak atheists only so they can say they make no claim about whether God exists and therefore they have no burden of evidence. The upshot is it makes the case in favor of atheism so weak even those who call themselves atheists won’t opine that God doesn’t exist. I think the claim made by atheists they only lack belief in the existence of God is bogus, in reality it is there opinion that God doesn’t exist.
I suspect some atheists enjoy being contrary and being part of a small often loathed minority. Some atheists just like to think there much smarter than most and therefore their belief isn’t for the gullible masses.
The opinion is that there's no reason to believe... in fact, why should I jsut believe in the existence of something?
Why can't I be shown that this god thing exists and close the subject?
Why all the secrecy regarding gods?
(March 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: 2. Drop linking belief in Santa to belief in God argument.Yeah... Santa does have a shakier ground to stand on... the guy is supposed to show up every year and deliver presents.
It’s a silly argument on the face of it. If belief in God were akin to belief in Santa Claus (or fairies, invisible pink elephants and so on) then why doesn’t 80% of the population believe in Santa Claus? If belief in God is as silly as belief in Santa Claus they need to explain why lucid sane adults don’t believe in Santa Claus but do believe in God? Secondly there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence that a mystical person known as Santa who delivers presents worldwide on Christmas is easy to debunk and disprove. If belief in God is akin to belief in Santa how can there be weak atheists who only lack belief in God? Do atheists think Santa may exist but they merely lack that belief?
But if parents don't provide said presents, then no present appear.
God has no such burden... he just works in mysterious ways, huh?
(March 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: 3. Drop the bashing, marginalizing and demonizing of believers.
If only all believers would do the same for all people who do not believe in the same thing as they do... The world would be a far better place.
But noooo... muslims cut your head off; christians had a nice thing called Inquisition, at which it seems the spanish excelled.
So yeah, believers are viruses who want to propagate their beliefs onto other people, just because they think it's right.... no evidence that they're right.... they just think, they believe, they're right.