Are you an Islamophobe?

[WinterHold]

I quite agree that someone has to be sick and twisted to kill the way the atheist at Chapel Hill or the shooters in Paris did. No one here will suggest that the end of religion will bring an end to madness or cruelty. As you have pointed out, imperialism, greed, and politics can cause plenty of havoc. I think it's fair to say you will also find few supporters among atheists here for W Bush or his warmongering policies in the Middle East.

Ah, the idea itself of killing somebody who didn't kill, simply guides to a sadistic brain, or a mentality polluted by hatred for so long.

The Chapel Hill killer ; and I bet on this, took the anti-theist extremist stand just as an excuse to kill. That was his blanket and how his brain did the logic. This guy didn't need atheism to kill : he just used it as a cover.

But it's how I see terrorists too ; they are mostly poor, oppressed young guys, growing a deep antisocial & hatred towards society, these kids don't need Islam to blow things up.

All that said, the line between madness and religious fanaticism seems to be a blurry one. Without religion, you will still have crazy people doing crazy things. Without religion, you will still have greedy, imperialistic countries harming and exploiting weaker nations. But with religion, you can get otherwise sane people to do crazy things and support imperialistic policies in the name of some "crusade/jihad".

Yep..the game of popes and Imams. Their favorite one ; actually.

The 9/11 hijackers came from middle class families and some of whom were very well educated. They might have had great futures working promising jobs and contributing to society. Instead, they flew planes into buildings and murdered thousands. Why? They were convinced that God wills it and God would reward them. However you may think they got Islam wrong, they did believe it.

On this one precisely, I do believe 9/11 was an inside job ; of course with Islamists being used again.
Though, the Wahabbi/Salafi faith does produce this type of people.. a dilemma that I try to make my logic around : why would a sane person believe this mentality ?

DeistPaladin, you must be insane to believe, that the road of mercy comes by plundering others & murdering them. I just can't wrap my head around this.

The wahhabi list contains shameful acts, and I have the Arabic history books so I read in details that doesn't reach the western crowd easily. They do insane stuff. In saudi arabia, they reached the levels of mass massacres.

Did they believe it ? or were they sadistic, and truly were seeking an easy path to fortune ?
There's a famous Muslim scholar -who had long experience with the original wahhabi branch in saudi arabia-, who said that they do believe in that to the core.

If there's one thing I should say, all the source of darkness that you see, comes from Sunni/Wahabbi & Salafi Islam along with the persian shia islam.

Politics and economics can cause cruelty and suffering too but religion is uniquely dangerous because it has no "reality check". Communism collapsed because people finally realized that the promised "worker's paradise" never came. Other imperialistic, economic or political ideologies collapse when people realize they're not delivering the goods. Religion promises a reward after we're dead and can't come back to tell anyone about it. Religion deals not with real political or economic events but unseen, undetectable forces that can't be understood or explained. There's no "reality check" to step on the breaks.

As all of this is true, I still think Islam is not dangerous to others ; and I totally think I can prove it..actually you gave me an idea for a new series of topics that you guys would see !!

What makes Islamo-Christianity especially dangerous are two things:
1. The God/Satan Conflict: According to both religions, the universe is a battleground between two sides. One is the god your religion serves, the sources of goodness in the universe, and the other is Satan. If therefore someone isn't part of your religion, it narrows it down who they serve (or at least are being duped by) doesn't it?

Yes. Going astray in Islam (according to the Quran) does mean you fell to Satan.

If you think your neighbors are working for The Devil, you are capable of doing anything to them. Islamo-Christianity literally demonizes others.

Here's where I think the Quran presents a path you wouldn't actually expect. The same path that makes love this place and stay in it..
Well, going astray doesn't mean you work for satan, rather he played a cruel joke on you ; and since you're a human, actually it's your battle alone. I have no relationship with it. Let alone ; maybe satan is playing me too ?? so according to the Quran, I can't judge.

2. The Faith-Based Salvation Concept: Islamo-Christianity suggest that life is just a transitory stage, a "test" that determines where we will spend eternity. The two outcomes are eternal, horrific punishment or eternal bliss in Heaven. The stakes are as high as they can be.

Being a matter that comes after death, it shouldn't at all affect how we treat each other on earth. Yet, for a Muslim, they should always be good so they truly get heaven ; i.e stay as much as possible away from harming others.

So what's a little torture on this earth if you save a soul for Heaven? So what's a little murder on this earth if you save more souls for eternity? If you send some unrepentant blasphemer to Hell a little early and by doing so, prevent him from causing the loss of faith of others, thereby saving more souls, isn't that a good thing?

By my reading to the Quran ; you can't actually do that. Even Mohammed peace be upon him was told, in many occasions, to stop dreaming about guiding everybody to Islam.
It's a personal test, and if god wanted everybody converted, god would do it now. Though, each person -alone- must go through this trial.

God in the Quran, did also create evil. To your surprise, I'm sure, god actually in some cases inflict evil upon you to see what you do, or allow evil people to have a loud voice. Thus, if we say a blasphemer talks against islam, god gave him that voice, then why would I intervene ? Matter in fact, he is a tool of god : since allah did create evil and does inflict evil sometimes as a test obstacle to see what you do.

I would only intervene when he carries a chainsaw and starts to raid Muslim homes ; otherwise : let him speak ; god created him not me.

Now, of course, 99% of Muslims and Christians don't take it to that extreme. I'm just showing how the potential is inherently there for anyone who really is convinced.

If they believe in what you said (and sadly many do) then yes.

Our policies have certainly made a mess of everything. As an American, I'm sincerely sorry we failed to stop W Bush from coming to power. I'm sorry we allowed 9/11 to drive us mad and follow the sociopaths in the Bush administration who were willing to exploit that to lie us into a war of aggression in Iraq that destabilized the region. I'm sorry that a few major corporations that make money off the American war machine have control over our media and most Americans have no idea what's going on in the world.

Appreciated..truly.

None of that absolves religion from any responsibility for the harm it does.

Yes, the ISIS for example has no excuses.

The Middle-East used to be a place of learning and enlightenment. It used to keep alive the knowledge of Greeco-Roman civilization. The mighty have fallen. The mild form of Islam that allowed the golden age of Islamic civilization was replaced by a more radical strain. Western imperialism isn't helping but that's not the cause of the current Dark Age in the Muslim world.

It's the arab dictators who are the main reason, along with the Sunni/Shia militias who patrol the region like moth.
The blame on the west comes, from Sykes-Picot, Israel & funding the dictators -like the American ongoing help to Saudi Arabia for example-.

I mean it shouldn't reach the level of America, sending its own countrymen, to defend saudi ass..that's just terrible.

Really not true, although there are bigots everywhere.

I would choose where I get my news more wisely from now on.

None of that means we can't criticize Islam or inspect the ideology for what might promote violence. I'm willing to grant that 99% of Christians are good people but that doesn't mean I don't criticize Christianity as being a bad religion. Same is true for Islam. It's the ideology I have a problem with, not the people.

This what I would expect, it's what I would do -and did- all my life. I was born a Sunni, I didn't leave that faith without criticizing it. Above all, this what made humans get over destructive conflicts & arguments.

Muslims escape that criticism by becoming moderate Muslims (shedding the bad parts, like moderate Christians do with their religion) or better yet, becoming ex-Muslims.

I'm not converting to atheism -_-.
Though, I'm trying to expose the truth rather than shedding it.