WTF???

[AngryBiker]

Kindly read the document and point out to me where is says so.

I'm sorry (I am being quite sincere here), but I won't do your homework for you.

There's plenty of stuff on the net, not to mention books that go into the establishment clause [scenario 1 as I mentioned earlier] and the free exercise clause [scenario 2] of the first amendment.

Read the friggin' document and point out to me where it says so. Pound your 'net.

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Ok, if anyone throws another insult around, I'm closing the thread.

@AngryBiker: I'm being lenient with you because you are new, but you really should have read the rules when you signed up, since you did agree to follow them when you clicked "I agree" on the registration page.

Adrian, please point out to me where I have been more abusive than those who have replied to me. If I have screwed up, I will reverse course. I am attempting to have an intelligent conversation here. I'm not the bad guy. But I'll be damned if I'll stand idly by and let a bunch of crackpots take unanswered shots at me. I asked a legitimate question which everyone but you chose not to answer,

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I'm all for secularism. I don't see our govt. 'forcing' religion anywhere. With all due respect, it seems to me that you guys are swattin' butterflies.

The idea of "God" is a very religious one. Thus, having the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance (a pledge meant to bring all Americans together) is discriminating against atheists, and is breaking the 1st Amendment by impeding on the atheist's free exercise of religion (and yes, atheism is a religion when it is considered politically, as is deism). It means that atheists can't say the Pledge of Allegiance truthfully, thus either atheists cannot be true Americans, or the Pledge is exclusive to a specific religious group. Either way, it goes against the 1st amendment.

Another example? The National Day of Prayer. Prayer, like God, is a religious idea. Having a national day of prayer is an establishment of a religious idea by the government.

I suppose to a deist, these things probably don't matter, and it does look like we are swatting at butterflies, but to us, they do matter. There are numerous "butterflies" out there, and they all represent some form of government meddling with religion, whether it be prayer in public schools, displaying the 10 commandments in courts, or saying prayers before official state meetings.

I also agree with what others have said here...if you are going to use what World Net Daily says to back up your argument, you should really have a good long look at what they say, and where it comes from. WND is not a "source"; neither is any newspaper or online news organisation (even the reputable ones). Sources come from studies.

I disagree with you on the point that the concept of 'God', or the 'Architect of the Universe', as I prefer, is a religious concept. To me it is a simple matter of fact. I will agree with you that the 'National Day of Prayer' is abhorrent. However, I have not yet heard of an instance where someone was forced to recite the Pledge or pray in public. Perhaps y'all over the pond have a different life. If so, quit trying do dictate how we do things in the Colonies. Get over your imperialist BS.

Deism and atheism are not religions, as they have no rituals nor do they adhere to a specific concept. Leave the stinking butterflies alone.

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I never said you made an ad-hominem. Insults in general aren't allowed here (though the rules are more relaxed in the R'lyeh forum).

My point of contention with you is your apparent insistence on calling all female members "Honey". These members have usernames for a reason; so that people can use them to address each other. There is no member called "Honey" at this time. You'll also find that we are more willing to discuss things with people if we aren't being called "arrogant" all the time, or any of the other generalisations you've thrown around.

Don't get me wrong, some atheists in this thread are guilty of the same behaviour, but what do you expect when you come here and start acting as if all atheists are somehow complete morons.

We are a friendly community; we want to have nice discussions with people. If you act nice, and approach people without pre-conceived ideas about who they are, you'll find that most of them will actually respect you and your beliefs, whether they agree with them or not.

I offer my sincerest apologies to the young lady (?). That's how we speak here in the American Southeast. I meant no disrespect. I offered my opinions based upon experiences with atheists with whom I have interacted. Most of the ones I have met are arrogant d!ckheads who have no tolerance for alternative points of view. I apologize for lumping you all together. Mea culpa.