(August 28, 2010 at 4:06 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: Ignorance, obstinance and stupidity. Obstinance most of all, because stupidity can't be helped and ignorance can be cured.Quite true.
(August 28, 2010 at 4:06 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: As a deist, I believe in a creator based upon observable, tangible phenomena.I would be too, if there were any, but I suppose that's neither here nor there.
(August 28, 2010 at 4:06 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: It seems to me that atheists are preoccupied with impressing their beliefs upon others, much like fundamentalist Christians do.I'm sure many have done so in some manner of frivilous action against religious groups, but it hasn't been my experience that that sort of thing is common among atheists, but I suppose common sense would tell me that atheists are probably just as uppity like every other human being on the planet.
Being right or wrong on their beliefs is irrelevant in light of determining who is and is not a douchebag.
(August 28, 2010 at 4:06 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: Atheists, and the un-American Criminal Liberties Union in particular, seem to spend a great deal of time and energy fighting things like recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance and public prayer.The ACLU is interested in protecting everyone's civil liberties, as others have noted here in this thread whether you're christian or atheist in the respect that the United States is a secular nation and they readily enforce the seporation of church and state, which means that they defend peoples' right to have or perform whatever religious actions or otherewise in the public setting and not have the state tell you what to do in that matter.
The reason the pledge is such a hot issue is because the pledge of allegence is something every student in virtually every classroom has to do and one of those things you have to do is acknowledge god. Personally, I don't think 'under god' should be in the pledge. Personally, I think prayer should be allowed in any public setting (where appropriate) as long as the state isn't enforcing a prayer or telling you not to prayer.
The ACLU's actions in these matters is always to defending the civil liberties of people, so if a student refuses to pledge because he doesn't want to say "under god" (regardless of the child's faith, or lack thereof) then the ACLU may choose to get involved or if it's something a bit more obvious, like a teacher forcing his or her class to prayer and getting students into serious trouble. If it's the school or even the state that's allowing this, then the ACLU (among other groups) would most certainly say "hell no".
I think 'defending our constitutional rights' of not being forced, by the state, to do one thing religious or another is exactly why the ACLU is one of the US's great defenders of our freedom.
The reason you hear of them being 'unamerican' is probably because you've been watching FOX news, because they're sure as hell going to give a trial airtime if the ACLU is involved in defending an atheist and you'll hear a lot about how evil that organization is in the process. If the ACLU is defending a christian's right to make prayer in a school, FOX will certainly report on the incident. You'll hear about how evil the school is but you'll be lucky to hear anyone utter "ACLU" except maybe in passing.
By the by, don't listen to FOX news. They're so biased for the republican/tea party that other programs like Jon Stewart and the Daily Show (a fake news program) is actually closer to being a real news program in contrast.
CNN and MSNBC don't seem to be much better, but their programs are far less ludicrous than FOX's (even if their commentators and talk shows are left-leaning.)
Personally, I watch MSNBC's Racheal Maddow, Keith Olbermann, and a few others on that channel occasionally, but I get most of my actual news from the Internet.
(August 28, 2010 at 4:06 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: Will somebody please tell me where in the Constitution it states that there shall be freedom FROM religion? I don't get it. The Constitution simply states that Congress shall establish no State religion.That is freedom from religion. We can't have the freedom to our own religion without it.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan