(April 17, 2015 at 6:17 pm)Jenny A Wrote:(April 17, 2015 at 9:14 am)The Reality Salesman Wrote: My advice for anyone debating a theist would be to keep in mind that you are very likely not debating the same thing. While you may have an understanding of the rules of rational discourse, not all people subscribe to those laws, and it's a good chance that they may be completely unaware of what constitutes a "good idea" from a "bad idea". In my experience, most theists that I find myself disagreeing with are not willing to place their beliefs under scrutiny. The willingness of a theist to participate in an argument is by no means an indication that they know how to argue properly. It's quite possible that they understand the word "argument" to be something that denotes a negative activity rather than a beneficial one. People who offer what they believe to be "gotcha arguments" are not interested in a mutual exchange of ideas in search of reliability; they are pseudo-intellectuals exercising cognitive defense mechanisms. Engaging in argument with an honest individual can be productive if both sides are truly interested in arriving at a mutual understanding of something reliable. Unfortunately, religious beliefs tend to be unique in the way one comes to have them; they are not founded by way of reason; and if one did not use reason to arrive at a conclusion, reason alone is not enough to persuade one away from it.
It helps a little to talk about what constitutes evidence and rational discourse before getting into the specifics. Often, once the rules are understood, there is no argument. The Christian signs off with it's self-evident, or I just know.
I hate the word "rules" not because in you are incorrect by using that term, you are flat out right!
What I hate about words like "rules" or "evidence" is that humans cant let go of bad claims. It is more important for most humans to protect their social norms than to admit they got it wrong.
