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Your favorite surahs
#25
RE: Your favorite surahs
Quote:Those countries may have vast differences but I'm doubtful as to how much that has to do with their "mentalities" as Muslim-majority nations; in regards to their bigoted views towards homosexuals and atheists (where one or both is tantamount to criminality in all those you listed), Islam as an irrational system of superstitious beliefs clearly inspires or directly condones such laws. And Saudi Arabia is one of the most oppressive, sexist, and barbaric nations in the world. It's also the historical center of Islam.
I agree with you and I believe that both the demand for literalistic interpretations as well as the lack of separation between church and State are the two major problems in Islam, far more than in Christianity or even Judaism - Saudi Arabia is indeed on the most oppressive regimes on earth and it fits the definition of an absolutist monarchy in perfection, but my argument was that it is inarguably an extreme case of violence and irrationality just like North Korea could be considered extreme compared to Cuba or even Lenin's more moderate during some years in the Soviet Union.

Quote:I would never argue that 1.7 billion people are equally responsible for the most heinous ideas and behaviors that Islam represents or promotes, and we can agree or disagree whether or not Sam Harris is too forgiving or trusting of U.S. foreign policy (I think he is), but it doesn't change the fact that part of being a Muslim requires you---to not simply accept some very bad doctrines---but to actively promote them. The extent to which reformers in the faith are able to secularize and moderate it is proportional to their ideological separation from the founder and its traditional ideals, just as a matter of history, and to the intimidation or dangers they face by the more conservative members of their religion, which arguably comprises the majority of Muslims.
I don't know how far can we go to claim that Muslims are forced or automatically compelled to follow and promote violent doctrines. As I said yesterday, the only requirement to being a Muslim is that you believe Allah is the one true god and that you can get into heaven by following the five simple pillars of the faith. I do not think all Muslims read the whole Quran, or if all of them understand the repercussions many verses have in real life - Correct me if I'm wrong but there are some people searching for secularism and reformism in Islam so they probably found a way to interpret the doctrine to fit it into a more humane narrative. I am not saying one interpretation is better or more correct, but since our only options are to either kill the majority of conservative Muslims or promote secularization I think we should choose the latter option for obvious reasons. 

I am someone who cares about practical results and not why people do it - If it means not cherry picking but openly rejecting half of the Quran, or using an alternative interpretation, or even (like some Muslims in a minority position do) reject Sharia and accept merely the Quran as  a source - I don't care, as long as it is done.

Sam vastly underestimates the effect of the west's foreign policies. There is no doubt that we (I'm talking about the west as a general group and not just one nation) played a part in inciting violence and terrorism. I don't think the fact 9/11 hit the WTC and the pentagon is a coincidence - Don't you agree? It seeks to send a very clear message with political and ideological repercussions. 

I disagree completely with politically correct people who believe religion doesn't play a part, but I also vehemently disagree with people who think religion is the only cause and that there isn't an antagonism between the middle east and the western world. That seems very clear and it's obvious by looking at simple portrayals the media does about the middle east, arabs, Muslims, etc.

Since you argued that Muslims are compelled to accept a dangerous doctrine, what do you think (as an American) countries like France should do about Muslim immigrants? Surveys predict that they may become a majority in 50 years time. What will happen? What would you propose? Because the way I see it if we are going to assume a category of people spouses an ideology that is dangerous we cannot cherry pick who's the true terrorist and that includes moderates.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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Messages In This Thread
Your favorite surahs - by Mudhammam - April 20, 2015 at 1:05 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Minimalist - April 20, 2015 at 1:06 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Exian - April 20, 2015 at 1:11 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Alex K - April 20, 2015 at 1:44 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Exian - April 20, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by paulpablo - April 20, 2015 at 2:47 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Mudhammam - April 20, 2015 at 3:37 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by ReptilianPeon - April 20, 2015 at 3:43 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by MysticKnight - April 20, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Mudhammam - April 20, 2015 at 2:42 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Marsellus Wallace - April 20, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by TubbyTubby - April 20, 2015 at 1:50 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by MysticKnight - April 20, 2015 at 1:58 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by MysticKnight - April 20, 2015 at 2:05 pm
Your favorite surahs - by TubbyTubby - April 20, 2015 at 2:01 pm
Your favorite surahs - by TubbyTubby - April 20, 2015 at 2:11 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by MysticKnight - April 20, 2015 at 2:13 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Dystopia - April 20, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Your favorite surahs - by TubbyTubby - April 20, 2015 at 2:21 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by MysticKnight - April 20, 2015 at 2:38 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by MysticKnight - April 20, 2015 at 3:50 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Mudhammam - April 20, 2015 at 4:35 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Dystopia - April 20, 2015 at 4:45 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Mudhammam - April 21, 2015 at 7:14 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Dystopia - April 21, 2015 at 8:07 am
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Mudhammam - April 21, 2015 at 3:00 pm
RE: Your favorite surahs - by Dystopia - April 21, 2015 at 5:58 pm



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