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Dear atheists,
#88
RE: Dear atheists,
(April 28, 2015 at 3:34 pm)IAOALGIV Wrote:
(April 28, 2015 at 2:12 am)robvalue Wrote: IAO: What do you believe? You seem to be implying we're misguided. Are you a theist or an atheist?

Everyone is one or the other. If you have an active belief there is some sort of God (whatever that may mean) you are a theist. Otherwise, you're an atheist. There is no middle ground, unless you use non-standard definitions.

I'm agnostic robvalue.
By the definitions we use, agnosticism refers to what you know. It doesn't answer the question of what you believe.

It may be simpler to lay it out this way. Consider these two separate claims:

1- At least one God exists
2- No gods exist

For each claim, you either believe the claim is true, or you reject it. Rejecting it does not mean you believe it is false.

If I accept claim 1 is true, I'm a theist. Active belief in God.
If I reject claim 1 and reject claim 2, I'm a (weak) atheist. No active belief in God, but no active belief there is no God.
If I reject claim 1 and accept claim 2, I'm a (strong) atheist. Active belief there is no God.

I would imagine you are in the second category, making you an atheist by our definitions. If you don't want to call that atheism but just agnosticism, then that's totally fine. If I'm wrong and you're in category 1 or 3, please correct me. If you'd rather not say which you are in that is your choice, but you still are in one of those categories.

To then address what you claim to know rather than just believe, that brings in agnosticism/gnosticism. Positions 1 and 3 above can be agnostic or gnostic, depending on whether you claim to know your belief is right or not. Position 2, which is the default position, is always agnostic as you're not making any positive claims to "know".
Feel free to send me a private message.
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Messages In This Thread
Dear atheists, - by True Believer - April 25, 2015 at 8:52 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by SteelCurtain - April 25, 2015 at 9:14 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Alex K - April 25, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jackalope - April 25, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Iroscato - April 25, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - April 25, 2015 at 9:28 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Iroscato - April 25, 2015 at 9:35 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Dystopia - April 25, 2015 at 9:20 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jackalope - April 25, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Hatshepsut - April 25, 2015 at 9:33 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by NotAMagician - April 25, 2015 at 9:33 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - April 25, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by vorlon13 - April 25, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by professor - April 25, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Iroscato - April 25, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Pyrrho - April 25, 2015 at 9:51 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by MattB - April 26, 2015 at 3:13 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Pyrrho - April 25, 2015 at 9:41 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jenny A - April 25, 2015 at 9:44 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Chad32 - April 25, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Minimalist - April 25, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by NotAMagician - April 25, 2015 at 9:53 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Minimalist - April 25, 2015 at 9:54 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by rexbeccarox - April 25, 2015 at 9:54 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Ravenshire - April 25, 2015 at 9:56 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Whateverist - April 25, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Silver - April 25, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Anomalocaris - April 25, 2015 at 10:18 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Bob Kelso - April 25, 2015 at 10:46 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by vorlon13 - April 25, 2015 at 11:09 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by henryp - April 25, 2015 at 11:21 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Thumpalumpacus - April 26, 2015 at 12:39 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by henryp - April 26, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Thumpalumpacus - April 27, 2015 at 8:53 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by SteelCurtain - April 25, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - April 25, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Iroscato - April 25, 2015 at 11:29 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by ObliviousCat - April 25, 2015 at 11:34 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Exian - April 25, 2015 at 11:41 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Anomalocaris - April 26, 2015 at 7:50 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Spooky - April 26, 2015 at 1:29 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Aoi Magi - April 26, 2015 at 2:25 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 26, 2015 at 3:26 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by henryp - April 26, 2015 at 8:29 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 26, 2015 at 12:36 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by JuliaL - April 26, 2015 at 10:40 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Esquilax - April 26, 2015 at 11:25 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by loganonekenobi - April 26, 2015 at 12:21 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Thumpalumpacus - April 26, 2015 at 12:33 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Longhorn - April 26, 2015 at 12:45 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 27, 2015 at 5:29 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by abaris - April 27, 2015 at 6:46 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Alex K - April 27, 2015 at 6:48 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 27, 2015 at 4:06 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Alex K - April 27, 2015 at 4:11 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 27, 2015 at 4:08 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by IAOALGIV - April 27, 2015 at 4:13 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Crossless1 - April 27, 2015 at 4:37 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Esquilax - April 27, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by IAOALGIV - April 27, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Esquilax - April 27, 2015 at 9:51 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Thumpalumpacus - April 27, 2015 at 10:23 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Ravenshire - April 29, 2015 at 3:43 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Minimalist - April 28, 2015 at 3:54 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 27, 2015 at 4:17 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by IAOALGIV - April 27, 2015 at 4:24 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by FatAndFaithless - April 27, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by IAOALGIV - April 27, 2015 at 4:33 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 27, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - April 27, 2015 at 4:45 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 27, 2015 at 5:27 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - April 27, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 27, 2015 at 8:41 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by IAOALGIV - April 27, 2015 at 8:42 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by KevinM1 - April 27, 2015 at 8:54 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 27, 2015 at 8:46 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by IAOALGIV - April 27, 2015 at 8:58 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Chas - April 28, 2015 at 3:43 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - April 28, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - April 27, 2015 at 8:53 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 27, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by IAOALGIV - April 27, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 27, 2015 at 9:32 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by The Valkyrie - April 27, 2015 at 10:25 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 27, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 28, 2015 at 2:12 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by IAOALGIV - April 28, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 28, 2015 at 9:02 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by FatAndFaithless - April 28, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 28, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - April 28, 2015 at 10:18 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 28, 2015 at 10:22 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Neo-Scholastic - April 29, 2015 at 3:20 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by TheRealJoeFish - April 29, 2015 at 3:27 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by henryp - April 29, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Pyrrho - April 29, 2015 at 3:37 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by downbeatplumb - April 29, 2015 at 5:20 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by KevinM1 - April 29, 2015 at 5:23 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Minimalist - April 29, 2015 at 8:15 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by FatAndFaithless - April 29, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Bad Wolf - April 29, 2015 at 3:22 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - April 29, 2015 at 3:56 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Neo-Scholastic - April 29, 2015 at 5:43 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Esquilax - April 29, 2015 at 6:06 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Chas - May 1, 2015 at 8:47 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by downbeatplumb - May 1, 2015 at 11:37 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by rexbeccarox - May 5, 2015 at 8:07 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - April 29, 2015 at 6:36 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 29, 2015 at 7:36 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - April 29, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Esquilax - April 29, 2015 at 8:13 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - April 29, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Esquilax - April 29, 2015 at 8:40 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - April 29, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Esquilax - May 1, 2015 at 10:40 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - April 29, 2015 at 8:06 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 29, 2015 at 10:12 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - April 29, 2015 at 10:24 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - April 29, 2015 at 10:26 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Napoléon - May 1, 2015 at 10:30 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - May 5, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by rexbeccarox - May 5, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - May 5, 2015 at 8:21 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by dahrling - May 5, 2015 at 8:23 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by rexbeccarox - May 5, 2015 at 8:32 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 8:35 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - May 5, 2015 at 8:35 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 8:38 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Bad Wolf - May 5, 2015 at 8:37 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by rexbeccarox - May 5, 2015 at 8:40 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by rexbeccarox - May 5, 2015 at 8:53 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 8:58 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by rexbeccarox - May 5, 2015 at 9:02 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Polaris - May 5, 2015 at 9:04 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - May 6, 2015 at 8:33 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 6, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Bad Wolf - May 6, 2015 at 7:28 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - May 6, 2015 at 7:36 am
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - May 6, 2015 at 12:08 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by robvalue - May 6, 2015 at 12:08 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - May 6, 2015 at 12:18 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Longhorn - May 6, 2015 at 12:20 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Bad Wolf - May 6, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - May 6, 2015 at 12:27 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Alex K - May 6, 2015 at 12:42 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - May 6, 2015 at 12:43 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by LastPoet - May 6, 2015 at 12:59 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - May 6, 2015 at 1:01 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Faith No More - May 6, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Jericho - May 6, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Neo-Scholastic - May 6, 2015 at 10:56 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Cyberman - May 6, 2015 at 11:02 pm
RE: Dear atheists, - by Esquilax - May 7, 2015 at 12:38 am

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