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What's to the right of fascist?
#16
RE: What's to the right of fascist?
(September 15, 2010 at 6:36 pm)Existentialist Wrote: I deny that there is left-wing fascism. Left wing is by definition anti-authoritarian and anti-capitalist; anyone claiming to be left wing who imposes authoritarian or capitalist rule, isn't.
Actually, the left is authoritarian when it comes to economics in most cases. The right is authoritarian when it comes to social values in most cases.

I agree that fascism is considered a right-wing ideaology, but this is in the same sense that anarchism is considered a left-wing ideology. The problem is, you can point to anarchists who are right-wing (anarcho-capitalists), and you can point to fascists who are left-wing (Stalin). The existence of these groups point to the whole "right-left" divide of politics as far too simplistic, hence the reason for the additional axis. The whole "left-right" divide is focused more on economic issues, since those are the main issues that separate the right-wing and left-wing. The "libertarian-authoritarian" divide is used for social issues. Thus, a left-wing fascist like Stalin is on the left-authoritarian side, and the traditional socialist like Ghandi is on the left-libertarian side. (Note: the use of the word libertarian refers to belief in social liberties, not the libertarian movement)

Quote:Putting Stalin on the left is an old right-wing propaganda trick. It muddies the waters, the fact is that Stalinism was as right wing as any right-wing party before or since.
Stalin was undeniably a supporter of communism. Communism is a left-wing idea. Communism has many forms; some of them are ant-authoritarian, and some of them are authoritarian. Stalin ran state-enforced communism; a very authoritarian version. It doesn't mean he wasn't left-wing; it just means he was an authoritarian left-wing. As Political Compass says on it's homepage, there is a need for the two axes, because otherwise people like Stalin and Ghandi would be in roughly the same place on the "left-right" scale, which is obviously rather stupid.

Quote:The left is innately libertarian - if it is authoritarian, it isn't of the left.
This is blatantly false, namely because left-wing is focused on social organisation; social progressivism, etc. The left can have very authoritarian views on other matters, such as the economy. Communist nations such as Cuba have had (until recently) a massive government control over business, where a lot of jobs are in the public sector rather than the private sector. This is an authoritarian idea; not in the sense that the government is forcing people to work for them, but in the sense that it is anti-individualism.

All you are doing is what you've consistently done here; redefine words despite what they are accepted to be. The way you have defined "left" and "right" leaves me absolutely no place to fit on the 1D line, nor does it for most people. I can't be "right-wing" because I'm a social progressive; I can't be "left-wing" because I'm a believer in the free market. Where does that leave me? A centrist? By your definition, probably, but I am no way a centrist in the sense that anyone else defines it.


(September 15, 2010 at 6:43 pm)theVOID Wrote: Seems like a misnomer, what exactly was "libertarian" about Ghandi? Tongue

I would call him a left liberal. Libertarian(ism) has baggage explicitly implies free-market leaning ideology.
The word "libertarian" in the graph denotes belief in personal liberty, not the libertarian movement. I know quite a few people who would object to you saying that Libertarianism implies free-market ideology. Take a look at Libertarian socialism.
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Messages In This Thread
What's to the right of fascist? - by DeistPaladin - September 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by downbeatplumb - September 15, 2010 at 1:28 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Minimalist - September 15, 2010 at 1:34 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 15, 2010 at 1:59 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Existentialist - September 15, 2010 at 6:36 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by downbeatplumb - September 15, 2010 at 2:02 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 15, 2010 at 2:19 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by theVOID - September 15, 2010 at 6:43 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by tackattack - September 15, 2010 at 2:04 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by AtheistPhil - September 15, 2010 at 2:08 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by DeistPaladin - September 15, 2010 at 3:31 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Skipper - September 15, 2010 at 2:31 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by krazedkat - September 16, 2010 at 6:32 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by padraic - September 16, 2010 at 6:41 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Entropist - September 16, 2010 at 6:59 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 16, 2010 at 7:16 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by krazedkat - September 16, 2010 at 7:22 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 16, 2010 at 7:41 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Minimalist - September 16, 2010 at 7:23 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Ashendant - September 16, 2010 at 7:46 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by theVOID - September 16, 2010 at 8:45 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Ashendant - September 16, 2010 at 8:53 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by chasm - September 16, 2010 at 8:56 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by theVOID - September 16, 2010 at 9:24 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by krazedkat - September 16, 2010 at 8:05 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Ashendant - September 16, 2010 at 8:38 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by theVOID - September 16, 2010 at 8:14 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by krazedkat - September 16, 2010 at 8:53 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 16, 2010 at 8:57 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by krazedkat - September 16, 2010 at 10:17 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 17, 2010 at 5:29 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by lrh9 - September 17, 2010 at 5:57 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 16, 2010 at 10:12 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by lrh9 - September 17, 2010 at 1:57 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Edwardo Piet - September 17, 2010 at 3:17 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - September 17, 2010 at 3:25 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Entropist - September 17, 2010 at 8:32 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by lrh9 - September 17, 2010 at 4:08 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 17, 2010 at 6:30 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Ashendant - September 17, 2010 at 7:32 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by lrh9 - September 17, 2010 at 7:42 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 17, 2010 at 8:02 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Ashendant - September 17, 2010 at 8:17 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 17, 2010 at 8:25 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by lrh9 - September 17, 2010 at 8:14 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 17, 2010 at 8:19 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by lrh9 - September 17, 2010 at 8:34 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Entropist - September 17, 2010 at 8:36 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by lrh9 - September 17, 2010 at 8:46 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Entropist - September 17, 2010 at 9:01 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by DeistPaladin - September 17, 2010 at 1:11 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by theVOID - September 17, 2010 at 9:07 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Paul the Human - September 17, 2010 at 1:24 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by DeistPaladin - September 17, 2010 at 1:29 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - September 17, 2010 at 2:07 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Tiberius - September 17, 2010 at 3:34 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by AtheistPhil - September 17, 2010 at 3:53 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by tackattack - September 17, 2010 at 2:45 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by krazedkat - September 17, 2010 at 8:30 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Zen Badger - September 18, 2010 at 2:00 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Ashendant - September 18, 2010 at 6:47 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by DeistPaladin - September 18, 2010 at 1:27 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by krazedkat - September 19, 2010 at 12:13 am
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Existentialist - September 25, 2010 at 4:54 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by The Omnissiunt One - September 25, 2010 at 6:07 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Existentialist - September 25, 2010 at 7:15 pm
RE: What's to the right of fascist? - by Jaysyn - September 26, 2010 at 11:22 am

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