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Ramadi
#11
RE: Ramadi
McCain's quote from above: “The problem is that when we left, there was a vacuum. Maliki decided to control the armed services. He fired all of his good people and hollowed out the army and then we had this consequence ... of, really, a collapse,” McCain, R-Ariz., said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

“So, we’ll have to start all over, I think, on training the Iraqi military and have a kind of a change in attitude on the part of the Iraqis that makes them understand the importance of good leadership and good training and that’s going to take, by the way, some American trainers.”


What's stunning about McCain's remark is that he seems to forget how we initiated the hollowing out of the Iraqi army with de-Ba'athification.  To wit: "Specifically, the Iraqi military was affected by Order No. 2. The Order called for the complete dissolution of the Iraqi military, and reportedly resulted in the unemployment and loss of pensions of approximately 500,000 individuals.  The figures regarding this level of unemployment are approximately 27%.  Many critics argue that this order specifically spurred the development of an armed insurgency."

More:  The security impact of the de-Ba'athification policy and the Order No. 2 disbanding the military were devastating in terms of their security impact. One of the most senior military officials in the United States, Admiral Mike Mullen states that the de-Ba'athification policy coupled with the disbanding of the Iraqi military created security problems, and unnecessary sectarian tension. The Admiral stated that that Iraqi military could have been used to help secure the country more quickly, but instead its disbandment contributed to the overall decay in security.  Other observers of the Iraq War conclude that the disbandment of the Iraqi military, coupled with de-Ba'athification fueled, if not created the insurgency against Coalition Forces.

Growth of insurgency:

Most sources regarding the Iraq War generally agree that CPA policies, such as de-Ba’athification and CPA Order Number 2 disbanding the Iraqi military and other security apparatuses exacerbated or created the insurgency in Iraq.  Supporting this view is Rajiv Chandrasekaran’s conversation with a former soldier in the Iraqi Army:

Chandrasekaran: "What happened to everyone there? Did they join the new army?"

Soldier: "They’re all insurgents now. Bremer lost his chance."

This quote also reveals that the insurgency was not only a means of expressing anger at a Coalition occupation of Iraq, but also motivated by economic and employment necessities. With thousands of ostracized Ba’ath Party members and hundreds of thousands of soldiers rendered unemployed, joining the insurgency could provide a means to a monthly income to provide for one’s family "in a land bereft of jobs."

One of the other reasons for the growth of a specifically Sunni insurgency was the fact that they felt alienated by the de-Ba’athfication policy and saw the insurgency as a means of retaliation.  Additionally, Chandrasekaran cited the CPA's inability to adequately provide services as a motivation for individuals to join the insurgency in order to retaliate against the power perceived as responsible for their plight."

[Quoted from Wikipedia article on De-Ba'athification]

But it's all on Maliki?  Right . . .

From Vietnam onward, we never fucking learn -- McCain, it seems, especially.
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Messages In This Thread
Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 7:04 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - May 19, 2015 at 12:29 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 19, 2015 at 2:10 am
RE: Ramadi - by brewer - July 2, 2015 at 6:41 pm
RE: Ramadi - by dyresand - May 19, 2015 at 2:24 am
RE: Ramadi - by Mudhammam - May 20, 2015 at 1:53 am
RE: Ramadi - by nihilistcat - May 20, 2015 at 4:12 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 19, 2015 at 2:29 am
RE: Ramadi - by CapnAwesome - May 19, 2015 at 2:46 am
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - May 24, 2015 at 12:42 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - May 24, 2015 at 5:31 pm
RE: Ramadi - by CapnAwesome - May 24, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 19, 2015 at 2:50 am
RE: Ramadi - by Silver - May 19, 2015 at 2:51 am
RE: Ramadi - by ignoramus - May 19, 2015 at 4:33 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 19, 2015 at 12:32 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Crossless1 - May 19, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: Ramadi - by abaris - May 19, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: Ramadi - by downbeatplumb - May 25, 2015 at 5:32 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 19, 2015 at 2:57 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - May 19, 2015 at 2:58 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 19, 2015 at 3:04 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 20, 2015 at 1:47 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 20, 2015 at 1:54 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - May 20, 2015 at 2:58 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 24, 2015 at 12:38 pm
RE: Ramadi - by nihilistcat - May 24, 2015 at 3:12 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 24, 2015 at 3:17 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 24, 2015 at 8:13 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - May 24, 2015 at 9:35 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - May 24, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 24, 2015 at 8:53 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 24, 2015 at 9:44 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - May 24, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Ramadi - by bennyboy - May 24, 2015 at 11:00 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - May 24, 2015 at 11:04 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 24, 2015 at 11:05 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - May 24, 2015 at 11:15 pm
RE: Ramadi - by vorlon13 - May 24, 2015 at 11:05 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 25, 2015 at 12:01 am
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - May 25, 2015 at 12:04 am
RE: Ramadi - by nihilistcat - May 25, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: Ramadi - by ignoramus - May 25, 2015 at 5:23 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 25, 2015 at 8:10 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - May 27, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - June 3, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - June 11, 2015 at 2:14 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - June 12, 2015 at 12:37 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - June 23, 2015 at 4:19 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 2, 2015 at 3:49 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - July 2, 2015 at 4:37 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 2, 2015 at 6:31 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 2, 2015 at 6:43 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 6, 2015 at 3:55 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 9, 2015 at 7:49 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 20, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 22, 2015 at 10:49 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 23, 2015 at 9:12 pm
RE: Ramadi - by abaris - July 23, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 23, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Ramadi - by abaris - July 24, 2015 at 6:25 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 27, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Aristocatt - July 28, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - July 30, 2015 at 6:17 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - August 13, 2015 at 12:28 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - August 27, 2015 at 1:05 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 17, 2015 at 12:56 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 25, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 26, 2015 at 8:33 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - September 26, 2015 at 11:30 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 27, 2015 at 12:42 am
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - September 27, 2015 at 2:00 am
RE: Ramadi - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 27, 2015 at 2:57 am
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - September 27, 2015 at 7:40 am
RE: Ramadi - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 27, 2015 at 6:32 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - September 27, 2015 at 9:01 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - September 26, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 27, 2015 at 2:37 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 27, 2015 at 2:37 am
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - September 27, 2015 at 2:56 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 27, 2015 at 3:14 am
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - September 27, 2015 at 6:51 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 28, 2015 at 2:21 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 27, 2015 at 8:08 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 28, 2015 at 2:23 am
RE: Ramadi - by Silver - September 28, 2015 at 2:31 am
RE: Ramadi - by Anomalocaris - September 27, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 28, 2015 at 2:25 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 27, 2015 at 10:38 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - September 28, 2015 at 12:47 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 28, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - September 30, 2015 at 7:57 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 4, 2015 at 4:57 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 6, 2015 at 3:54 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 8, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 9, 2015 at 11:43 am
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - October 9, 2015 at 1:58 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 9, 2015 at 2:11 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 13, 2015 at 11:48 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 14, 2015 at 12:09 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 15, 2015 at 11:38 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 16, 2015 at 11:38 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 29, 2015 at 6:34 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - October 31, 2015 at 5:31 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - November 11, 2015 at 1:29 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - November 11, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - November 11, 2015 at 3:46 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - November 12, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: Ramadi - by The Grand Nudger - November 12, 2015 at 2:09 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - November 27, 2015 at 1:10 pm
RE: Ramadi - by A Raggedly Bohemian Radical - November 27, 2015 at 6:06 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - December 6, 2015 at 1:41 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - December 8, 2015 at 11:30 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - December 20, 2015 at 2:06 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - December 28, 2015 at 2:22 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - December 30, 2015 at 11:07 pm
RE: Ramadi - by The Grand Nudger - December 31, 2015 at 9:01 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - December 31, 2015 at 11:20 am
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - January 23, 2016 at 1:59 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - January 23, 2016 at 1:34 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - January 23, 2016 at 2:42 am
RE: Ramadi - by account_inactive - January 24, 2016 at 4:15 am
RE: Ramadi - by The Valkyrie - February 10, 2016 at 9:49 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Thumpalumpacus - January 23, 2016 at 3:30 am
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - February 4, 2016 at 6:57 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - February 10, 2016 at 9:45 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - April 2, 2016 at 3:49 pm
RE: Ramadi - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2016 at 3:50 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Wyrd of Gawd - April 2, 2016 at 11:02 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - April 2, 2016 at 3:56 pm
RE: Ramadi - by Minimalist - April 2, 2016 at 11:30 pm
RE: Ramadi - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2016 at 9:19 am
RE: Ramadi - by abaris - April 5, 2016 at 9:57 am

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