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Hello, Anyone interested in a debate?
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate?
(June 12, 2015 at 9:19 pm)francismjenkins Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxNbXjBbzEo

I FUCKING LOVED THIS!!  It made me whip out my Quantum Mechanics books which I have not looked at since I got my Master's in Electrical Engineering.  Great shit!!!

1.  The Irony:  The irony is indeed amazing.  While I am positing the existence of a single proactive cause which was not caused by anything else to avoid an infinite regressive chain at the beginning (and hearing staunch opposition).  You are positing the existence of innumerable virtual particles at all times to establish the existence of "some kind of space-time quantum foam sort of something existed before our own universe began."  Now I delayed response to research and to see if everyone was as opposed to this as what I was positing.  Somehow the majority seem okay with the existence of innumerable virtual particles while be opposed to a single proactive cause without cause (I am still geeking out about it!!!):
https://youtu.be/MzzlgxTvCIM
By general atheistic threshold of proof you would need to evidence these virtual particles in a manner that is not implicit circumstantial empirical evidence.  Now I recognize as soon as I say that, others will say that threshold of proof does not need to be satisfied by this theory; in which case one may argue special pleading or bias.  However, I am content with implicit circumstantial proof and am willing to consider the existence of these virtual particles.

2.  Virtual Particles:  From what I have researched in my old texts and online, virtual particles are explanatory method utilized in Feynman diagrams to describe the interaction of actual particles in such a way as to not simply state spooky action at a short distance.  Which is akin to saying, "imagine electron flow through a conductor as water through a pipe where Voltage = Water pressure; while Amperage = Rate of Water Flow."  While beneficial as an explanatory method this is not to say electrons are water.  In like manner virtual particles as an explanatory method for describing the interactions between actual particles should not be considered actual particles of an independent existence such that they alone may comprise quantum foam. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_pa...n_diagrams).  

"The MAGIC (Major Atmospheric Gamma-ray Imaging Cherenkov) telescopes have detected that among gamma-ray photons arriving from the blazar Markarian 501, some photons at different energy levels arrived at different times, suggesting that some of the photons had moved more slowly and thus contradicting the theory of general relativity's notion of the speed of light being constant, a discrepancy which could be explained by the irregularity of quantum foam.[3] More recent experiments were however unable to confirm the supposed variation on the speed of light due to graininess of space.[4] Other experiments involving the polarization of light from distant gamma ray bursts have also produced contradictory results.[5] More Earth-based experiments are ongoing[6] or proposed.[7]...  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam)

Although the Casimir effect can be expressed in terms of virtual particles interacting with the objects, it is best described and more easily calculated in terms of the zero-point energy of a quantized field in the intervening space between the objects. This force has been measured and is a striking example of an effect captured formally by second quantization.[3][4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect)

The calculation that underlies the Casimir experiment, a calculation based on the formula predicting infinite vacuum energy, shows the zero-point energy of a system consisting of a vacuum between two plates will decrease at a finite rate as the two plates are drawn together. The vacuum energies are predicted to be infinite, but the changes are predicted to be finite. Casimir combined the projected rate of change in zero-point energy with the principle of conservation of energy to predict a force on the plates. The predicted force, which is very small and was experimentally measured to be within 5% of its predicted value, is finite.[32] Even though the zero-point energy is theoretically infinite, there is as yet no evidence to suggest that infinite amounts of zero-point energy are available for use, that zero-point energy can be withdrawn for free, or that zero-point energy can be used in violation of conservation of energy.[33] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point..._cosmology)

Ordinarily, quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam)

3.  Pair Production:  Review and research into Heisenberg uncertainty principle generally holds particles which are created must conserve the total fermion quantity in the universe.  As such a fermion is not created without creating an anti-particle which annihilates readily with the particle.  From the theory being presented it is stipulated that within this quantum foam hesienberg uncertainty would allow for the spontaneous creation of fermions on the scale of 1x10^-3 grams.  Given the mass of a proton is 1.67x10^-24 grams and other fermions which are even smaller this would be stating that Heisenberg uncertainty would allow for the creation of numerous virtual particles (6x10^20) without the creation of virtual anti-particles at the same time which would annihilate almost immediately in a highly confined volume of 1x10^-99 cubic cm.  Thus under this theory the quantity of fermions is not conserved.

“Thus, virtual particles are often popularly described as coming in pairs, a particle and antiparticle, which can be of any kind. These pairs exist for an extremely short time, and mutually annihilate in short order. In some cases, however, it is possible to boost the pair apart using external energy so that they avoid annihilation and become actual particles.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_pa...n_diagrams)

4.  Vacuum:  In philosophical terms I would not consider a vacuum as nothing (and it does appears that physics is coming to agree with the philosophy).  While it may not consist of particles it does already consist of dimensions of space and time.  As such it would seem that stating the quantum foam as existing within a vacuum of any given space or time (even of planck length or time) would be considered begging the question.  As the aforementioned would simply be describing the expansion of the already existing space and time, while using heisenberg uncertainty to get some “stuff” rather than the beginning of existence. Big Grin

Perhaps we may get Alex K to explain a little more.  As I confess my quantum mechanics is rusty.  In either case I love video and hope they are able to verify this theory!!!
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Messages In This Thread
Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 3:50 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 3:57 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 12:28 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 1:42 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - May 22, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:12 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Cato - May 21, 2015 at 4:05 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:41 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 10:13 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 3:50 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 30, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 2, 2015 at 1:36 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 3, 2015 at 3:40 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 4, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 10, 2015 at 12:13 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 10, 2015 at 6:02 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 12, 2015 at 11:51 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 12, 2015 at 12:04 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 12, 2015 at 1:01 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 12, 2015 at 7:10 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 14, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 15, 2015 at 3:31 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 15, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 12:26 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 1:40 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Ace - June 16, 2015 at 9:34 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:50 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 5:23 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:55 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 5:02 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 10:53 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Exian - May 21, 2015 at 4:55 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 5:09 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 5:16 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 5:26 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 5:36 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Cato - May 22, 2015 at 10:10 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 3:51 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 5:13 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Cato - May 22, 2015 at 6:19 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - May 22, 2015 at 10:30 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Cato - May 24, 2015 at 8:00 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Jenny A - May 22, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 5:45 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Angrboda - May 23, 2015 at 11:44 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 24, 2015 at 1:54 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 25, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Angrboda - May 26, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Cato - May 24, 2015 at 7:48 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 5:40 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Alex K - May 21, 2015 at 5:43 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 21, 2015 at 6:01 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 10:32 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Angrboda - May 22, 2015 at 10:43 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 11:05 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Angrboda - May 22, 2015 at 11:15 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 10:40 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Jenny A - May 22, 2015 at 10:48 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Longhorn - May 22, 2015 at 10:46 am
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RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 1:52 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 5:35 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 2:02 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 3:26 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 22, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - May 22, 2015 at 11:47 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Angrboda - May 23, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 24, 2015 at 12:49 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by robvalue - May 24, 2015 at 10:11 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Angrboda - May 24, 2015 at 12:54 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 24, 2015 at 2:45 pm
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RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 27, 2015 at 9:52 am
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RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 27, 2015 at 11:05 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - May 27, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 27, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 27, 2015 at 3:49 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 27, 2015 at 11:28 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Jenny A - May 28, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 27, 2015 at 4:49 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Chas - May 28, 2015 at 11:23 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 28, 2015 at 11:38 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Chas - May 28, 2015 at 12:53 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 28, 2015 at 1:38 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Chas - May 28, 2015 at 6:17 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 28, 2015 at 7:55 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Chas - June 1, 2015 at 9:39 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 1, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Angrboda - June 1, 2015 at 12:22 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Chas - June 1, 2015 at 12:32 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 1, 2015 at 1:47 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 28, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 1:36 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Esquilax - May 28, 2015 at 10:47 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 1:10 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 1:25 pm
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RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 28, 2015 at 11:44 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 1:45 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 5:04 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 5:15 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 7:40 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 29, 2015 at 10:20 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 30, 2015 at 6:19 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 30, 2015 at 7:57 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Jenny A - May 30, 2015 at 11:17 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 30, 2015 at 8:48 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 31, 2015 at 12:31 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - May 31, 2015 at 1:24 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 1, 2015 at 10:22 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Silver - June 1, 2015 at 10:30 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 1, 2015 at 11:16 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Angrboda - May 31, 2015 at 10:51 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 1, 2015 at 9:35 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Cyberman - June 1, 2015 at 12:51 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 1, 2015 at 11:20 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Chas - June 1, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Silver - June 1, 2015 at 11:19 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 2, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 2, 2015 at 6:51 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Ace - June 2, 2015 at 7:20 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 6, 2015 at 1:13 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 12, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by LastPoet - June 15, 2015 at 12:49 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by pocaracas - June 15, 2015 at 12:53 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 15, 2015 at 3:48 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 5:20 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 5:30 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 5:47 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 6:30 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 6:46 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 7:49 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 8:07 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 8:21 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 8:26 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 16, 2015 at 9:32 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 16, 2015 at 11:16 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 27, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 27, 2015 at 6:32 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 28, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 28, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 29, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 29, 2015 at 6:39 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 30, 2015 at 3:54 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 30, 2015 at 7:35 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - July 2, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - July 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Ace - June 17, 2015 at 11:08 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 29, 2015 at 12:59 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 30, 2015 at 10:25 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by brewer - June 29, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 29, 2015 at 6:44 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by brewer - June 29, 2015 at 9:38 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 30, 2015 at 9:34 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by bennyboy - June 30, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - June 30, 2015 at 6:33 pm
RE: Hello, Anyone interested in a debate? - by Anima - July 2, 2015 at 2:01 pm

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