What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Catholic_Lady]

I think morality comes from the fact that life (especially human life) is sacred. And life is sacred because God made it sacred, and told us that it is sacred.

Would that be the same god who invented death, and issued it as punishment to every human who has every lived for a "sin" committed only by the first two? Would that be the same god who created Kaposi's Sarcoma, viral pneumonia, earthquakes, asteroids which wipe out 99% of all living things, and so on?

Tell us more about how he holds life to be sacred.

Death is only the beginning of eternal life, in my belief. So to me, there is nothing wrong about natural death, in and of itself. My religion does not teach anything about God issuing death as punishment, so I cannot tell you about that. I believe natural disasters and diseases are a result of nature and the world we live in. I don't believe that God is a micromanager. I believe in evolution. I believe that He created the concept and let nature takes its coarse. Even if that nature results in the end of our life here on earth and the beginning of our life elsewhere.

And so hurting/destroying something sacred is always objectively and definitively wrong.

If you're against killing in any circumstance, why do you give your god a pass?  He's the greatest killer in history, according to your own Bible.

This question does not apply to me. I am a Christian, and so I do not believe that God "killed" anyone.

That's why I believe we must treat all life with dignity and respect. Because living things have a certain dignity to them.

I gather that you don't take antibiotics, then? Do you offer the shark your arm when you're paddling in the surf?

No, not all life is sacred.  Your own actions give the lie to this platitude, lovely though it sounds.

Do you have any children?

I also state that human life in particular is more important. So it is not immoral to kill a bacteria for the sake of a human being. And no, I do not. Though I hopefully will soon.

And that is why I believe we must treat humans especially well above plants and animals, because God made our lives at a higher level than those of other living things of the earth.

I really don't care about your superstitions.  We're talking about morality.

I thought you asked me how I rationalized my morality? This whole thing was supposed to be a response to you. I am sorry, I thought you wanted to know.

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Parkers, I will answer your questions. What are your questions?

Haven't you been reading my posts? Go back through the thread and you'll see them.  You asking me to repeat myself is getting tiresome.

I think I've already answered this by saying I don't believe the stories in the OT actually happened literally as they are written. Meaning, I don't believe things like God telling Moses that he will kill the first born of the Egyptian families. I don't believe any of this "behavior" ever happened.

Based on what?

Sorry I missed them. I got a lot on my hands, trying to respond to everyone. I'm not the fastest typer....

Based on the teachings of Jesus and the type of man (God) He was.

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Why is contradiction a problem?  I have many contradictory attributes.  You probably do to.  God can't?  There were once, btw, christians who thought that the god of the NT was not the same god as the god of the OT, that NT god was here to save us from OT god.  "Jesus" -different- teachings are those which contain thought crimes, hell, and vicarious redemption.  These three are the least moral teachings in the bible, so far as I'm concerned.  Different, but not better.

(an atheist can believe in or hold to any moral truth, being an atheist has nothing to do with moral truths, the only sort of truths one cannot hold and simultaneously be an atheist are those "truths" which stem from a god)

I believe God is perfect so I don't believe He contradicts Himself.

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A catholic should not cherry pick catholic teaching. So as long as you still believe in Catholic teaching, you are ok. Whether or not you literally believe Moses spoke to a burning bush, or Eve was tempted by a snake, or Jonah was inside a whale for 3 days, is not important, so long as you adhere to Catholic teaching which is made up of the teachings of Christ, many of which contradict the OT. I have already explained why I don't consider this "cherry picking" but I can see I have not done a good enough job of explaining myself.

Catholic teaching -is- cherry picking...lol.  I'm okay even if I don't believe in their teachings, and so are you.  The teachings of christ are no improvement upon the OT, in my opinion.  Certainly no moral improvement.  The entire moral enterprise is turned into a complete farce in the NT.  At least in the OT...people got what was coming to them.  The NT god forgives the rapist but condemns the atheist, the NT god is not concerned with your moral actions, only your loyalty.  The NT god, and this is truly disturbing.....asks you to accept that another be punished for your own misdeeds, and that somehow this will excorcize your culpability in them.

Theres no point in being moral at all, if loyalty is more effective, more efficient, and will suffice.  The whole thing becomes a show for the dolts.

In that sense, rhythm, all beliefs are "cherry picking." You evaluate and separate fact from fiction. And of course people are going to disagree, but that's what makes the world what it is. And I'm ok with that.