What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Catholic_Lady]

...But isn't that what you are doing when you say you believe the story of Genesis is allegorical?

No, because I regard all of it as horseshit.  Pure, grade-A horseshit.

I believe ALL the Old Testament is allegorical. The nice parts, and the bad parts alike. I'm not sure why you are perturbed by this.

Because you're using this to dodge the question of why the same god is so entirely different from one book to the other. And because you have no way of knowing that you've applied the allegorical reading and the literal reading to the right portions of the book.

Would you rather me believe that the bad parts about slavery and stoning being acceptable are literal?

Facts are facts. Slavery and execution by stoning were facts. And according to the part of the book you disregard, your god ordered those things.

Why would you want me to believe such horrible things are true? They go against the teachings of Christ, so of course I am against them.  

In other words, you've made up your mind already, and feel obliged therefore to regard that part of the bible as allegory. This is exactly what I've been saying all along. Thanks you for finally admitting as much.

I regard them as allegorical because I regard the entire Old Testament as allegorical. I don't believe Moses spoke to a burning bush. I don't believe Jonah was in a whale for 3 days. I don't believe Eve was tempted by an apple. Above all, and most importantly, I  regard it all as allegorical because I'm Christian. And Christ *specifically* teaches that some stuff in the Old Testament is inaccurate. I am not trying to make an argument, just telling you what I believe because you seem to really want to know and understand.

What's funny is that he teaches that those moral precepts are outmoded, and that the time has come for a new set of values.

You see, even Christ, as written in the Bible, is a moral relativist.

You continue with your cherry-picking, young lady.  It's time for this old man to get some shut-eye.  Good night.

Parkers Tan, I am not dodging the question. A huge part of believing in God, in the Christian sense, is believing that He does not change. A big part is also believing that morals do not change. I am not dodging your question. Merely explaining my belief system as a Catholic.

---

It isn't all about emotional inclinations. I use logic to get to this point. Christianity makes much more logical sense to me. Just as being an atheist makes more sense to you. Could someone else other than yourself be right? Sure, but you don't think so. Same with me.

Last point: how many other religions did you examine in the same depth as you examined Catholicism? How old were you when you converted?

The idea of Christianity being logical is risible.

I did not convert. I was born a Catholic.

But probably during the ages of 14 and 18 I did a lot of reexamination. And even know, I continue to grow in my faith and look for answers.

---

I still can’t get over that you admitted that all the stories in the old testament are an allegory. Why can’t the New Testament be an allegory too? Noah’s Ark, Jonah, Samson, Moses parting the Red Sea, talking burning bushes, people living to be 900 years old, are all allegories, but jesus walking on water, turning water into wine, raising Lazarus from the dead, feeding 5,000 people with 5 loaves of bread and two fishes, and cursing a fig tree…your skepticism isn’t raised in the slightest towards these things?

You say you are trying to think logically, and had a period of doubt, how are those stories convincing when the others aren’t? They are all stories, that’s it. I feel you need to apply a bit more skepticism to these claims, instead of just believing them because they are written in a book.

If muhammad was said to walk on water, and there was never a mention of jesus doing it, you’d probably think that story was nuts, but because it’s in your religion, you just believe it without even being all that skeptical. You just accept the good and miraculous parts, ignore the bad parts, and don’t seriously question the validity of the claims. If you’ve seriously questioned it, you probably wouldn’t be believing in it.

If I believed the NT was all allegorical, I would not be Christian. As Christians we must believe that Jesus was a real man and that His teachings and His story are real as told in the Gospels. But we are not required (at least in the Catholic faith) to believe any of the OT stories were written literally.

---

In those instances where it's clear that your beliefs (and not just your religious beliefs, but your beliefs about things like subjective morality) are an impediment to understanding the responses you've been given to your questions....they are going to end up being discussed, sure.   That -might- be unavoidable.  It's been fun, nice to meet you, see you next time.

Same to you!