What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[abaris]

Well, it seems I've only encountered about three Christians then.

The Christians that I have met who most fit these verses generally aren't very religious and don't go to church. I have also met nonChristians who are very gentle, kind people that meet most of the criteria for a good person, at least what is outlined in those verses. So, the fruit of the Holy Spirit is given to people who don't believe in Jesus and is denied to many of those who do. It is almost like the HS does not exist.

And may I just note that it's always the "no true scottsman" argument when one of them reveals himself to be a raving lunatic.