RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 19, 2015 at 1:43 pm
(This post was last modified: June 19, 2015 at 1:50 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 19, 2015 at 1:21 pm)abaris Wrote:(June 19, 2015 at 1:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I do not believe morality is one of them.
But morality does change. People back then, at Judea, found it perfectly all right and moral to stone people to death for extramarital sex. They also held slaves and felt morally justified in doing so. The irony even goes further, since in the 19th century, when the slave issue became virulent, both slave owners and abolishionists took their arguments from the bible.
Morality is always changing and hopefully to a more enlightened state than what was all right and considered moral 2000 years ago. If we as a society would still follow the moral code of these people, we would have a pretty dark time.
They did find it moral. They were wrong. It was never moral. Jesus stopped the stoning of an adulteress precisely because it was immoral, even though at the time it was about to happen it was socially accepted and normal.
(June 19, 2015 at 1:26 pm)paulpablo Wrote:(June 19, 2015 at 12:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But do you think it's objectively immoral to torture a child just for the hell of it? There are plenty of people out there who get off on that. If a culture was ok with this act, wouldn't you say that they are wrong?
Lol, sure, enslaving is better than neglecting and allowing to die, but wouldn't you say it's still objectively wrong? What about for the many societies who enslaved people by stealing them from their homes and not by "rescuing" them from the battle ground? They most certainly had no problem with that. To them, it was normal and not immoral at all.
Rape also applies.
I can't tell you what is universal or objective because between the two of us we can only agree on what we both think. So if I think something is wrong and you think something is wrong, we still haven't revealed what is believed to be right or wrong by the other people on earth who have existed all throughout history.
As I said previously, I can see circumstances outside of my own experiences in life that would make child torture and slavery the right thing to do.
Definitely in the past it was seen as the right thing to do to put a child through lots of pain and hardship to enable him to cope better with the harsh reality of living, rituals and passages into manhood were quite torturous.
I wouldn't torture or enslave a child or rape anyone but I might do if I was in a different place and time in history.
I guess on that we will have to agree to disagree.
I believe torturing a child for fun, kidnapping and raping a woman, and ripping people from their homes to enslave them never was or has been moral, regardless what society thought.
(June 19, 2015 at 1:29 pm)Neimenovic Wrote:(June 19, 2015 at 1:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Trust me, I do many things that are wrong. I am not a perfect person, and would never pretend to be.
Never said you were. Just saying this closed minded fear of everything different bullshit doesn't suit someone as seemingly kind as you.
I'm sorry you feel that way Neim. But just because you and I disagree on morality does not make me close minded, neither does it mean I'm afraid of your different opinions. I respect your opinions. But I have my own. That is all.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
-walsh