Well, that was an interesting experience, to say the least. I am a Christian now.
J/K!!!!!
My brother and I got there a few minutes late, so fortunately I only had to stand through one worship song. Then the pastor, who has known Habermas since 1977, introduced him to an almost rock star's reception, which I found amusing. He was limited on time so he didn't really go too in-depth into his "evidences" for the resurrection, but centered around the points that the Gospels are early sources, and made a comparison to Alexander the Great, whose earliest surviving biographies (due to many books being suppressed and destroyed, by the church, a fact he didn't mention) are much later and therefore, according to him, less reliable than the testimony we have for Jesus. All typical apologetic fare, none of which I find impressive. He also talked about 1 Corinthians 15 and how it (he thinks) contains a creed datable to the 30s.
After his short talk, there was a minute intermission followed by a 20 minute Q and A. I went out for a smoke and when I came back in there were only a few questions left. One about Bart Ehrman, one about the Shroud of Turin, and then the pastor said that they would take one more question.
I stood up. I was in the back, so I had to talk loud since there weren’t any microphones. Fortunately, the church isn’t that large. I basically said, more or less:
“I have two questions, if that’s okay. My first question is why do none of the Christian writings show any interest in specifying the location of Jesus’ tomb, which would seem to have obvious significance for religious worship as well as their apology that he was really resurrected? My other question is why does Paul, in 1 Corinthians where he is talking about Jesus’ spiritual body, make his case by saying, ‘if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen,’ which seems an odd way of stating it and makes more sense if Paul’s beliefs about Jesus’ post-mortem fate is being informed by the Jewish doctrine of the resurrection of the dead.”
Gary said, “I heard about five words in those two questions,” to which the Pastor concurred, and then everybody spurred me to go up to the front of the church and ask them again! Awkward! But I did so, and Gary’s answers, taking the second question first, were, to summarize:
“Paul does state it that way but also reverses it too, to say that if Christ is not raised then there is no resurrection of the dead, and vice versa. As to the location of the tomb, tomb veneration was really popular in the first century and the fact that they did not revere the spot where Jesus was laid is further evidence that the tomb was empty. They didn’t worship the location because there was no body there.”
That was my experience. Overall, I’m glad I went. My mom talked to him afterwards and said that he did remember my brother (not the atheist one, but my Christian brother) and I going out to lunch with him, nearly fifteen years ago, and asking him A LOT of questions. So that was cool. My blood pressure only rose a few times when he talked about atheists, skeptics, and critics and portrayed them in a way that I would say was both incorrect and unfair, but that was to be expected.
J/K!!!!!
My brother and I got there a few minutes late, so fortunately I only had to stand through one worship song. Then the pastor, who has known Habermas since 1977, introduced him to an almost rock star's reception, which I found amusing. He was limited on time so he didn't really go too in-depth into his "evidences" for the resurrection, but centered around the points that the Gospels are early sources, and made a comparison to Alexander the Great, whose earliest surviving biographies (due to many books being suppressed and destroyed, by the church, a fact he didn't mention) are much later and therefore, according to him, less reliable than the testimony we have for Jesus. All typical apologetic fare, none of which I find impressive. He also talked about 1 Corinthians 15 and how it (he thinks) contains a creed datable to the 30s.
After his short talk, there was a minute intermission followed by a 20 minute Q and A. I went out for a smoke and when I came back in there were only a few questions left. One about Bart Ehrman, one about the Shroud of Turin, and then the pastor said that they would take one more question.
I stood up. I was in the back, so I had to talk loud since there weren’t any microphones. Fortunately, the church isn’t that large. I basically said, more or less:
“I have two questions, if that’s okay. My first question is why do none of the Christian writings show any interest in specifying the location of Jesus’ tomb, which would seem to have obvious significance for religious worship as well as their apology that he was really resurrected? My other question is why does Paul, in 1 Corinthians where he is talking about Jesus’ spiritual body, make his case by saying, ‘if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen,’ which seems an odd way of stating it and makes more sense if Paul’s beliefs about Jesus’ post-mortem fate is being informed by the Jewish doctrine of the resurrection of the dead.”
Gary said, “I heard about five words in those two questions,” to which the Pastor concurred, and then everybody spurred me to go up to the front of the church and ask them again! Awkward! But I did so, and Gary’s answers, taking the second question first, were, to summarize:
“Paul does state it that way but also reverses it too, to say that if Christ is not raised then there is no resurrection of the dead, and vice versa. As to the location of the tomb, tomb veneration was really popular in the first century and the fact that they did not revere the spot where Jesus was laid is further evidence that the tomb was empty. They didn’t worship the location because there was no body there.”
That was my experience. Overall, I’m glad I went. My mom talked to him afterwards and said that he did remember my brother (not the atheist one, but my Christian brother) and I going out to lunch with him, nearly fifteen years ago, and asking him A LOT of questions. So that was cool. My blood pressure only rose a few times when he talked about atheists, skeptics, and critics and portrayed them in a way that I would say was both incorrect and unfair, but that was to be expected.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
