(June 21, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Metis Wrote: ...
(June 21, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Why not? It is all dishonest anyway. One must reject what the Bible and Jesus say in order to get to the idea that slavery is bad. It is only through the erosion of religious beliefs that a Christian can be an abolitionist.
Of course, it is a good thing that people are and have been getting away from the morality of the Bible. But it is completely dishonest to say that the Bible is the source of such improvements. But you are not arguing with someone who has any regard for the truth, so you ought not expect to hear such things from him.
Ah...Funnily enough I do have to disagree here (wow, this is bittersweet). I think it is impossible to believe the Roman Pontiff is infallible and to disagree with slavery but I don't actually think that actually extends to Protestantism (Orthodoxy suffers the same trap as Catholicism, but to a much lesser extent as their claims to infallibility are far less grandoise).
We know there was a serious reshuffle in what was good/bad between the OT and NT and several commands contained in the NT like "there is neither gentile or jew" can very easily be extended or reinterpreted to be against slavery. I don't have a problem with Protestants claiming that slavery is immoral, many of them freely admit they can read the verse incorrectly but I do find it curious that the infallible mouthpiece of God can change his mind on the matter.
Two things. First, the serious reshuffle is bogus. It is just Christian bullshit propaganda. The words of Jesus as recorded in Matthew 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Of course, Christians typically pretend that Jesus didn't really mean what he said. But we have there Jesus endorsing all of the laws, which includes the laws pertaining to slavery.
I may also add that the idea that God got it wrong and had to correct things with Jesus is theologically problematic. If there had been a drastic change, that would mean that God was drastically wrong in the first place. Even a little change means that God was a little wrong.
Second, the New Testament tells us that slaves are supposed to obey their masters (I'll save myself some typing by just quoting someone):
Quote:You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm
So, the message about slavery is, slaves should obey their masters. That is the "good news" of the New Testament. It is only in rejecting such evil drivel that one can be an abolitionist. The Bible is simply proslavery, regardless of whether we confine ourselves to just the New Testament or not.
So I stand by my original comments. It is only in rejecting parts of the Bible, AND parts of what Jesus said (as reported in the Bible), that one can be an abolitionist. That applies whether one is protestant or catholic or anything else.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
