(June 22, 2015 at 7:22 am)Tonus Wrote:(June 20, 2015 at 11:31 am)Little Rik Wrote: If we have already discussed this why you keep on saying that the consciousness is a product of the brain?Quote:That isn't what I've been saying. I've been pointing out that the mind is a function of the brain, and have explained why, including the evidence for why it is reasonable to believe that. Consciousness is a state, not a product. And we know it's a state of the brain because it's pretty easy to induce by altering brain chemistry.
What a hell of a mental mess Ton.
1) You have......pointing out that the mind is a function of the brain.......
That is a statement Ton and a statement MUST come with solid evidence.
2) Your statement is followed by a so called evidence that is not solid as it should but as you say is.........REASONABLE.
What a load of bull Ton.
Since when an evidence is reasonable?
As far as i know an evidence is 100% evidence not reasonable.
3) Consciousness is a state?
What a crap is this Ton?
Consciousness is YOU.
You decide to start the thinking and the action.
Who else start the action otherwise?
4) You say......And we know it's a state of the brain because it's pretty easy to induce by altering brain chemistry..............
I can alter the engine of my car and this will affect the way the vehicle run and therefore also the driver will be affected.
Does this means that the driver is a state of the car?
For Christ sake Ton you are in a total mental mess.
You need help and a lot of it.
Little Rik Wrote:We also can induce a feeling as if we are in paradise by taking drugs.
That doesn't mean that paradise doesn't exist.Quote:You are making my point for me. We know that by altering brain chemistry (ie, physical change) we can cause people to enter a dream-like hallucinatory state. We now know that the same can be achieved when there is temporary loss of oxygen to the brain under certain circumstances. Physical changes to a physical brain produces repeatable results, which implies that the mind is a function of the brain.
BULL.
We know that if you put kerosene in your car tank instead of petrol or gasoline your car will run like shit.
At the same time we know that if you put shit in your mouth your brain will not work properly and your consciousness
will also be affected.
Does this mean that the driver is a function of the car or that the consciousness mind is a function of the brain?
Give me a brake Ton, for Christ sake.
Little Rik Wrote:You see how confused you are?Quote:Only by your intransigence in the face of reality. Well, not entirely. I understand why you're reacting this way, but it's still counter-productive for you to do so.
In the face of reality?
Are you serious Ton?
The body sooner or later will die so that can not possibly be the reality.
Physical evidence that the consciousness will survive the body is not there yet and may never come
but spiritually speaking is a different story so the reality may well be the opposite of what you think.
Scientists only work on the physical aspect.
No wonder that they can't find anything.
Little Rik Wrote:If you got any evidence that NDEs are bull then show this evidence.Quote:Again I have to wonder if you are paying attention. I have not said that "NDEs are bull." I have pointed out that we are learning what causes them, and that it has nothing to do with spirits or souls. It's a logical extension of the understanding that the mind is a function of the brain.
What a hell of a confusion Ton.
1) First you say that you don't say that NDEs are bull and then you say the opposite by saying that NDEs have nothing to do with spirits or souls.
2) You even state without any evidence that ......... we are learning what causes them..........
How did you learn? Where is the evidence that what you presume to have learned is true?
Are your experts skill enough to understand whether the consciousness is able to live a dead brain or not?
An old saying........THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND.
Little Rik Wrote:Oh, please Ton don't talk about ignorant.Quote:Then stop saying ignorant things.
Little Rik Wrote:You build up in your mind that physical science got it rightQuote:That's because physical science (which is to say... science) tends to get it right. Our modern world is evidence of that.
YEAH.
Ages ago they say that they got rid of malaria.
After they failed again and again malaria is still the No1 killer globally speaking.
Try again Ton but please less crap.
Little Rik Wrote:but when i did asked you whether these researchers die and then came back to life
so they could tell whether there is God or not you don't reply.Quote:Because it's a dumb argument.
Actually that is the ONLY way to know whether God is there or not from a physical point of view
so considering that you take in consideration only what can be proved physically speaking then
the question is not dumb at all.
Little Rik Wrote:Ton this is the only evidence, all the rest is just guessing.Quote:And you wonder why I call you ignorant?
I would have thought that ignorant is the one who believe that a piece of matter like the brain is more important than the real I or the super conscious mind.
Quote:It seems to me that your arguments regarding the soul come down to your claims, which you admit are just beliefs you seem to have no basis for. Your only arguments in defense of your beliefs are "you can't prove otherwise" and "NDEs." The former is just as easily turned back on you for any counter-claims, and is therefore worthless. The latter is the only thing holding your beliefs together. And if that comes undone, so does your whole belief structure. Maybe that, in and of itself, is reason enough for you to doubt that belief structure.
If we take in consideration only the physical aspect of the issue then it is obvious that nothing can be proved.
How can something abstract as the consciousness can be proved in a physical way?
You never thought about it Ton, did you?
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