What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Randy Carson]

Nope. "Until about 1970, the Orthodox Church generally opposed the use of contraception." Wikipedia

And I've had the conversation with EO at CAF, so yeah, the EO finally gave in on contraception - but only very recently.

Half right, they said they accepted condoms and the pill recently but here is the rub, they never condemned it previously and older herbal forms of contraception such as spermicides had always been allowed. They just gave a thumbs up to the new technology which did the job far better.

Wow. That's twice that you indicated that I got at least part of my answer right. Do you have any idea how rare that experience has been for me in this forum? I'm almost at a loss for words. But maybe you're just being kind.

Now, I've read the rest of your post, but I'm not going to respond to each and every little point because of the amount of time it would take to refute it all. You may call it "running rings around me" if you like. It's just not how I want to spend the time that I have available.

You're just offering another version of "whack-a-mole" - played at a higher level because you've done some reading, obviously - but it's still the scatter shot type of anti-Catholic posting that enables you to assert a half a dozen points in a single post while chuckling to yourself because you know that a reasonable refutation of any one of them would require hours of work. (Interestingly, though, I notice the COMPLETE lack of references in your posts. You know that's not how the game is played. If you want to make a point, cite your source. I'm not saying you're making stuff up to impress the crowd, but I do like to fact-check occasionally. I'm sure you understand.)

Ah, you'd like references? Forgive me, as an apologist I thought you'd be familar with the material (and would call me out if I made a mistake) and I have shared references and named encyclidicals by name and provided reference pages/numbers/verses for them. I wasn't aware you wished for direct links. That's fine, all of the Encyclidicals are available on the Vatican website and most of the Church Fathers are available too so that shan't be a problem from here on out.

If there are any you are struggling to locate from what I have posted please do post them, I'll be happy to point you to where I found them.

The encyclicals are obviously easy enough to locate. I just didn't realize you were quoting an encyclical when you asserted that Pius XII wouldn't condemn Hitler until after he had died.

I fear it's nothing quite so exciting, and I'm something of an aberration and the product of circumstance. I'm a cradle non-believer as you put it, but when it came time for me to choose my university and subject I was offered a scholarship to study Theology no less at a Liberal Protestant Seminary provided I was willing to do some work for them afterwards. Someone was willing to let me study all expenses paid? I practically bit their arm off.

I passed with flying colors, and I later applied to study M.A with an Orthodox institution which I graduated from as well. I come for much the same reasons the others here do, I seek fellow non-belivers to discuss a few subjects with from that perspective. The only difference is I'm very highly qualified in the rulebooks used by theists, particularly Anglican and Orthodox Christians.

Is it your opinion that the non-believers here have anything like the formal training you have? If not, why bother? There are other venues where your intellect and education will be put to better tests.

I'm actually doing a second Theology based M.A now, although this time in Sunni Islamic Theology. It's not something I need for my job, although every qualification does increase my wages, just simple curiosity. I may not believe, but I am fascinated by what a powerful social control mechanism religion can be. I would have carried on to PhD level but sadly while I am permitted to study no university or seminary I have encountered yet will accept an atheist for a doctoral thesis on Theological matters and I'm too proud to lie to trick them into accepting me.

It's far more than most athiests invest, but most of us just dismiss religion as fairy tales. I personally would too if the world had ever been held thrall by retellings of Hansel and Grettel, but when a man like the Pope can hold a third of the worlds population under his thumb well....I'd like to know how he did it

If there is no God, then for what purpose does the pope need to control us? And if there is a God, again, for what purpose does the pope need to control us?

Finally, has your study focused primarily on the historical issues surrounding the Church? Or would you say you have a solid formation in scripture also?