Steak

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Lamb chops are good but it's blasphemy to even mention them on a steak thread!

No. Just no.

What are lamb chops but small steaks?

I suppose you're going to speaking out against pork chops next, you foul blasphemer.

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But whether rape or murder is wrong or not isn't subjective?

I believe that it is subjective. It is perhaps nearly universal amongst humans, however, consider this - would the moral objections to murder and rape exist if there were no humans on Earth?

I don't think so. I'm not sure how that then makes it purely subjective. Nor am I now sure why it matters if it is subjective. If you agree upon a certain standard (such as "do unto others as you would them do unto you") then under that standard you can decide upon moral obligations that are consistent with that standard. Maybe morality is ultimately subjective (a matter I haven't really studied yet). What matters here however is if whether one is acting consistently with the standard. Of course, you might say that acting consistently with a standard is in itself a subjective value (if all moral values are subjective).

If we can both agree upon a certain basic moral standard and that acting consistently with that standard is good, then we can decide if whether killing animals for eating is good or bad.

My point is that I haven't really seen in this thread a justification for killing animals that is consistent with the value "of do unto others etc." which is a value almost all the atheists I've met affirm.

(I wrote the above while eating a roast beef sandwich.)