Mayweather Vs Pacquiao
March 4, 2015 at 11:52 pm
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2015 at 11:54 pm by Napoléon.)
So I know there's not a lot of boxing fans on these boards, but surely some of you must have some opinions on the upcoming fight.
For those of you living under a rock here's what I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Maywe...y_Pacquiao
Who's going to win? I think it's a tough one to call. Both fighters have very good reasons to suggest they have the edge over the other.
If I were to break those reasons down, here's what I'd say (pretty lengthy):
Why Mayweather would win...
1. Boxing smarts.
Without a doubt this guy wins all the time because he's the smartest man in the ring. He's sly, he's crafty, and he rarely does more than he needs to in order to win a fight. He's very good at getting the other fighter to fight his kind of fight, and we've seen him take opportunities in the past after throwing people off their game (check out the Ortiz fight for instance, after Ortiz gets points deducted for headbutting). I think in this regard, he may well have the edge over the Pac-Man.
2. His style.
This one is a somewhat contentious 'pro' for Mayweather, but he does fight best on the back foot when a guy is coming in throwing punches and leaving openings. Pacquiao will likely be the aggressor in the fight and has shown he can be caught with a well timed counter. The best counter-puncher in the game is Floyd Mayweather. It's not outside the realms of possibility that Mayweather will simply wait for an opening and take it. I'd say it all depends on the kind of Pacquiao that turns up on the night, but I'll come to that later...
3. His experience.
I think Mayweather, over recent fights has probably fought slightly better opposition, but overall career wise you can't really split hairs on how 'good' their opponents have been (the arguments over whether Mayweather has ducked anyone could belong in their own thread). But Mayweather has fought almost every kind of fighter out there, and won. Every. Single. Time. Pac-Man can't say the same. He's had problems fighting certain kinds of opponents and even been knocked out. Floyd has simply never been beat and always looks better than whoever he's fighting.
4. His legacy.
Make no mistake, everything is on the line for Floyd in this fight. I think this will make him train harder and be in the best possible condition. That's bad news for his opponents. Floyd's never really been a volume puncher anyway, and he only really needs to be in condition to ensure he has the speed to last in the later rounds and pick people off. I think if he weathers the storm that Pac will throw at him, his speed and counter-punching could win him the day. It's hard to stress though just how big a deal it is that his legacy is well and truly on the line. We've seen before that sometimes Floyd only shows in flashes what he's really capable of. It could even be said that he looks lazy in some fights. But when he fights someone who brings out the best of him, who forces him to not be that boring "I'm only going to do what I need to do" kind of fighter, he usually rises to the occasion. When literally everything is on the line like it is, I think we will see the very best Floyd Mayweather.
Why Pacquiao would win...
1. Work rate and movement.
This guy is a machine. He just never stops punching. It's because of this that he wins so many fights. Floyd, I don't think, has ever really fought anyone who throws as many punches, and in as many combinations as what Manny does. Not only this but his foot movement is unrivalled. On his day, he hovers around the ring like a bee constantly stinging his opponents and peppering their faces with combination after combination. We've seen so many fights where he just absolutely overwhelms opponents with punches and hard work. But it's not just that, he's genuinely skilled. He isn't some go forward brawler when I refer to 'hard work'. He's a real boxer, and he's accurate. Very, very accurate.
2. His style.
Okay, so I said that Pacquiao's style suits Mayweather. And that's absolutely right, but here's the thing, you can flip it and look at it totally the other way. Mayweather's style also suits Pacquiao! For starters, Pac-Man is a southpaw. And Mayweather has shown some significant weaknesses against southpaws, and he's really been troubled by them in the past. Next is his work rate and movement, that we've already mentioned. Add to that his handspeed and power, I think Mayweather will be in all kinds of trouble. Mayweather usually looks great when he can pick fighters off at his own pace, but I don't think (assuming the right Manny Pacquiao turns up) he'll get that opportunity with the Pac-Man, and I don't think he'll be able to dictate the fight given Manny's immense work rate.
3. Pacquiao will always win on points against Mayweather.
This is due to his style and work rate again. Aggressive fighters usually get the judges eye anyway, and while the more 'successful' punches usually get counted, meaning you can still win rounds even if you throw less, I think that it simply won't be possible for Floyd to steal rounds like he might against other opponents. Floyd doesn't throw anywhere near 100 punches a round while Manny regularly does. Sometimes these stats don't matter if the other guy is missing the majority of those, but I think with how good Manny is, he'll certainly land enough punches in my opinion to win rounds comfortably. Considering that it would take a real special punch to knock Manny out too (Floyd is certainly capable of that), I think this is a real big plus for him. Let's not kid ourselves, Floyd has never been a big puncher, his only real hope of knocking Manny out is by finding an opening and exploiting it, but I think that's easier said than done, and it's certainly easier for Manny to do his thing running about the ring keeping distance and winning rounds than it is for Floyd to catch him with a shot good enough to knock him out, especially when Floyd has never really been known as a fighter who goes after other fighters.
4. Manny is the underdog who has overcome the odds before and Mayweather is not the unbeatable fighter his legacy suggests.
Anyone could work this out if they just look back at the fights these two guys have had. I'll bring up one very important man though. Zab Judah. This guy knocked Floyd down (just check youtube if you want). It wasn't ever called a knockdown, it was ruled a slip, but every man and his dog knew that shit was a knockdown. This may seem innocuous enough, and it certainly is a rare occurance, but it shows that anything is possible in boxing. If there's one thing I've learned from watching boxing all my life, it's that upsets can and do happen, and even guys you never envision losing can get parked up on their arse like they're a sack of potatoes. But here's the thing that makes this all the more significant, it was the kind of punch that he got caught with. A right hook from the southpaw stance... A la, Manny Pacquiao.
Aside from all of the above reasons for and against, it seems to me that Mayweather has been dodging the fight for years, most boxing pundits would acknowledge this I think. He knows himself that if there was ever a fighter who had a real chance of beating him, it would be Manny. This is the most dangerous fight of his career make no mistake.
Dare I say it, I think he's genuinely scared of how good Pacquiao is too. But I think this fear would drive Mayweather to be in tip top condition for the actual fight, and like I said before, his legacy is on the line. So I am reasonably confident we'd see the very best Mayweather turn up. Pac-Man on the other hand? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he'll train hard, but is his entire legacy depending on it? Not really. Is he expected to win the fight? Not according to the book-makers. So to me, so much of this fight comes down to what kind of Pacquiao turns up on the night, as opposed to what kind of Mayweather we see. And that's what makes me edge towards Mayweather.
I think if Manny comes in and rolls back the years, harking back to how he fought against De La Hoya, I really think he can not just win, but dominate Floyd from start to finish. Anything less than a 100% Pac-Man however, and I think he might be beaten to the punch, perhaps enough for Floyd to make it a close fight... and maybe, just maybe, Floyd could knock Pacquiao out with his superior counter-punching ability.
This one really is a tough one though. My brain is telling me that Mayweather will find a way, like he always does. But my heart is praying to fuck Manny knocks this arrogant bastard out and exposes him as a fraudster for all these years who's hand-picked fighters at the right times.
So what do you guys think? Manny or Floyd. Be sure to hit up the poll.
Please no "who cares" posts in this thread too. I'd actually like some decent discussion here if anyone cares for it.
For those of you living under a rock here's what I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Maywe...y_Pacquiao
Who's going to win? I think it's a tough one to call. Both fighters have very good reasons to suggest they have the edge over the other.
If I were to break those reasons down, here's what I'd say (pretty lengthy):
Why Mayweather would win...
1. Boxing smarts.
Without a doubt this guy wins all the time because he's the smartest man in the ring. He's sly, he's crafty, and he rarely does more than he needs to in order to win a fight. He's very good at getting the other fighter to fight his kind of fight, and we've seen him take opportunities in the past after throwing people off their game (check out the Ortiz fight for instance, after Ortiz gets points deducted for headbutting). I think in this regard, he may well have the edge over the Pac-Man.
2. His style.
This one is a somewhat contentious 'pro' for Mayweather, but he does fight best on the back foot when a guy is coming in throwing punches and leaving openings. Pacquiao will likely be the aggressor in the fight and has shown he can be caught with a well timed counter. The best counter-puncher in the game is Floyd Mayweather. It's not outside the realms of possibility that Mayweather will simply wait for an opening and take it. I'd say it all depends on the kind of Pacquiao that turns up on the night, but I'll come to that later...
3. His experience.
I think Mayweather, over recent fights has probably fought slightly better opposition, but overall career wise you can't really split hairs on how 'good' their opponents have been (the arguments over whether Mayweather has ducked anyone could belong in their own thread). But Mayweather has fought almost every kind of fighter out there, and won. Every. Single. Time. Pac-Man can't say the same. He's had problems fighting certain kinds of opponents and even been knocked out. Floyd has simply never been beat and always looks better than whoever he's fighting.
4. His legacy.
Make no mistake, everything is on the line for Floyd in this fight. I think this will make him train harder and be in the best possible condition. That's bad news for his opponents. Floyd's never really been a volume puncher anyway, and he only really needs to be in condition to ensure he has the speed to last in the later rounds and pick people off. I think if he weathers the storm that Pac will throw at him, his speed and counter-punching could win him the day. It's hard to stress though just how big a deal it is that his legacy is well and truly on the line. We've seen before that sometimes Floyd only shows in flashes what he's really capable of. It could even be said that he looks lazy in some fights. But when he fights someone who brings out the best of him, who forces him to not be that boring "I'm only going to do what I need to do" kind of fighter, he usually rises to the occasion. When literally everything is on the line like it is, I think we will see the very best Floyd Mayweather.
Why Pacquiao would win...
1. Work rate and movement.
This guy is a machine. He just never stops punching. It's because of this that he wins so many fights. Floyd, I don't think, has ever really fought anyone who throws as many punches, and in as many combinations as what Manny does. Not only this but his foot movement is unrivalled. On his day, he hovers around the ring like a bee constantly stinging his opponents and peppering their faces with combination after combination. We've seen so many fights where he just absolutely overwhelms opponents with punches and hard work. But it's not just that, he's genuinely skilled. He isn't some go forward brawler when I refer to 'hard work'. He's a real boxer, and he's accurate. Very, very accurate.
2. His style.
Okay, so I said that Pacquiao's style suits Mayweather. And that's absolutely right, but here's the thing, you can flip it and look at it totally the other way. Mayweather's style also suits Pacquiao! For starters, Pac-Man is a southpaw. And Mayweather has shown some significant weaknesses against southpaws, and he's really been troubled by them in the past. Next is his work rate and movement, that we've already mentioned. Add to that his handspeed and power, I think Mayweather will be in all kinds of trouble. Mayweather usually looks great when he can pick fighters off at his own pace, but I don't think (assuming the right Manny Pacquiao turns up) he'll get that opportunity with the Pac-Man, and I don't think he'll be able to dictate the fight given Manny's immense work rate.
3. Pacquiao will always win on points against Mayweather.
This is due to his style and work rate again. Aggressive fighters usually get the judges eye anyway, and while the more 'successful' punches usually get counted, meaning you can still win rounds even if you throw less, I think that it simply won't be possible for Floyd to steal rounds like he might against other opponents. Floyd doesn't throw anywhere near 100 punches a round while Manny regularly does. Sometimes these stats don't matter if the other guy is missing the majority of those, but I think with how good Manny is, he'll certainly land enough punches in my opinion to win rounds comfortably. Considering that it would take a real special punch to knock Manny out too (Floyd is certainly capable of that), I think this is a real big plus for him. Let's not kid ourselves, Floyd has never been a big puncher, his only real hope of knocking Manny out is by finding an opening and exploiting it, but I think that's easier said than done, and it's certainly easier for Manny to do his thing running about the ring keeping distance and winning rounds than it is for Floyd to catch him with a shot good enough to knock him out, especially when Floyd has never really been known as a fighter who goes after other fighters.
4. Manny is the underdog who has overcome the odds before and Mayweather is not the unbeatable fighter his legacy suggests.
Anyone could work this out if they just look back at the fights these two guys have had. I'll bring up one very important man though. Zab Judah. This guy knocked Floyd down (just check youtube if you want). It wasn't ever called a knockdown, it was ruled a slip, but every man and his dog knew that shit was a knockdown. This may seem innocuous enough, and it certainly is a rare occurance, but it shows that anything is possible in boxing. If there's one thing I've learned from watching boxing all my life, it's that upsets can and do happen, and even guys you never envision losing can get parked up on their arse like they're a sack of potatoes. But here's the thing that makes this all the more significant, it was the kind of punch that he got caught with. A right hook from the southpaw stance... A la, Manny Pacquiao.
Aside from all of the above reasons for and against, it seems to me that Mayweather has been dodging the fight for years, most boxing pundits would acknowledge this I think. He knows himself that if there was ever a fighter who had a real chance of beating him, it would be Manny. This is the most dangerous fight of his career make no mistake.
Dare I say it, I think he's genuinely scared of how good Pacquiao is too. But I think this fear would drive Mayweather to be in tip top condition for the actual fight, and like I said before, his legacy is on the line. So I am reasonably confident we'd see the very best Mayweather turn up. Pac-Man on the other hand? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he'll train hard, but is his entire legacy depending on it? Not really. Is he expected to win the fight? Not according to the book-makers. So to me, so much of this fight comes down to what kind of Pacquiao turns up on the night, as opposed to what kind of Mayweather we see. And that's what makes me edge towards Mayweather.
I think if Manny comes in and rolls back the years, harking back to how he fought against De La Hoya, I really think he can not just win, but dominate Floyd from start to finish. Anything less than a 100% Pac-Man however, and I think he might be beaten to the punch, perhaps enough for Floyd to make it a close fight... and maybe, just maybe, Floyd could knock Pacquiao out with his superior counter-punching ability.
This one really is a tough one though. My brain is telling me that Mayweather will find a way, like he always does. But my heart is praying to fuck Manny knocks this arrogant bastard out and exposes him as a fraudster for all these years who's hand-picked fighters at the right times.
So what do you guys think? Manny or Floyd. Be sure to hit up the poll.
Please no "who cares" posts in this thread too. I'd actually like some decent discussion here if anyone cares for it.
