I started posting on atheist websites about 20 years ago. My wife found a (now defunct) site called Cygnus' Study. Cygnus (Sam Gibson really) was an atheist similar to Minimalist here, except Sam was much more creative at slinging insults. It was a joy to watch at times, even as the target. Anyway, she made a very bad post on evolution (why are monkeys still here), and when she took heat asked for my help. I joined in, and pretty quickly got hooked. The site looked a lot like AF does now - similar color scheme, similar forum topics. While new features like kudos have been added since, it's amazing how little things have really changed.
Back then, not everyone had internet, and we didn't have social media yet. The caliber of poster was generally higher. While the site owner was like Mini, most of the atheists there at the beginning were pretty reasonable. When Sam gave me grief unfairly, they even stood up for me. The level of debate was really good. We did things like the "virgin" issue, and ended up digging into Blue Letter Bible to use Strong's to find all instances of a particular word, then went into the Septuagint, and even ancient poetry in order to make our cases. It was fascinating.
What does that time say regarding reasons for posting at an atheist forum?
1 - You can potentially learn a lot that you otherwise wouldn't, just because you have to in order to compete.
2 - Yes, it was competition. Another reason is the joy of arguing. To me, participating in a good debate is like doing a crossword puzzle, but better, as you have a live opponent.
3 - Challenging your faith. The atheists try to discard Pascal's Wager by noting it's not a proof, and that's true, but that doesn't mean it's without value. I'm speaking here of expanding the concept to other religions. If there's proof Christianity is false, I want to know it, and explore other religions more deeply.
The level of discussion devolved over time until it was something like it is here in terms of respect (not much) and animosity (growing). Cygnus got tired of maintaining the site, and one day it was gone.
I spent a few years at (now defunct) atheist.net, or atheism.net. It was run by some people in Denmark. They had rules on civility and enforced them, so it was really nice to post there. But, more people were on the interwebs by then, and the typical atheist doesn't want civil discussion, they want to mock. So, the site's traffic dried up, and they pulled the plug. This experience is why I don't think that a civil forum would work here if implemented. Atheists occasionally lament the lack of good debate, but they don't really want it, or sites like this one would have thrived.
I did a stint at AF.com, but got banned. Then I ended up here. There were a few other places I hit for shorter times over the years, but I don't recall which.
I think Youtube has just incredibly dumbed down the internet. People watch a couple videos supporting what they want to believe and think they're educated. It's pretty much ruined debate.
Other reasons I've considered for posting at atheist sites:
4 - Spreading the word
5 - Learning about the latest in anti-Christian propaganda in order to be prepared to discuss it in other places
So, what do I think about those reasons now?
1-Learning and 3-challenging my faith were valid for a time. But, the quality of discourse has dropped so low that I don't think those are currently valid reasons.
2-arguing as a hobby is as valid as dong crosswords for a hobby I suppose, but it's really a waste of time.
4-evangelizing - this can be used to justify a short time at an atheist site, but not a continued presence. There are general passages on sharing the word and setting an example that can be brought up to justify posting at such a site. But, a rule of interpretation is that the specific overrules the general, and the specific verses on the subject are clear:
Matt 7
6 Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
Matt 10
14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
5-learning about the latest arguments - I can do that without posting.
So, on reflection, why am I here?
My presence here is nothing more than a bad habit.
Prov. 26-11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
Unless I see a convincing argument to the contrary, I'm going to leave the site at the conclusion of this discussion.
@CL: There are plenty of Christian sites where you can make online friends, and those sites would be better for you.
Back then, not everyone had internet, and we didn't have social media yet. The caliber of poster was generally higher. While the site owner was like Mini, most of the atheists there at the beginning were pretty reasonable. When Sam gave me grief unfairly, they even stood up for me. The level of debate was really good. We did things like the "virgin" issue, and ended up digging into Blue Letter Bible to use Strong's to find all instances of a particular word, then went into the Septuagint, and even ancient poetry in order to make our cases. It was fascinating.
What does that time say regarding reasons for posting at an atheist forum?
1 - You can potentially learn a lot that you otherwise wouldn't, just because you have to in order to compete.
2 - Yes, it was competition. Another reason is the joy of arguing. To me, participating in a good debate is like doing a crossword puzzle, but better, as you have a live opponent.
3 - Challenging your faith. The atheists try to discard Pascal's Wager by noting it's not a proof, and that's true, but that doesn't mean it's without value. I'm speaking here of expanding the concept to other religions. If there's proof Christianity is false, I want to know it, and explore other religions more deeply.
The level of discussion devolved over time until it was something like it is here in terms of respect (not much) and animosity (growing). Cygnus got tired of maintaining the site, and one day it was gone.
I spent a few years at (now defunct) atheist.net, or atheism.net. It was run by some people in Denmark. They had rules on civility and enforced them, so it was really nice to post there. But, more people were on the interwebs by then, and the typical atheist doesn't want civil discussion, they want to mock. So, the site's traffic dried up, and they pulled the plug. This experience is why I don't think that a civil forum would work here if implemented. Atheists occasionally lament the lack of good debate, but they don't really want it, or sites like this one would have thrived.
I did a stint at AF.com, but got banned. Then I ended up here. There were a few other places I hit for shorter times over the years, but I don't recall which.
I think Youtube has just incredibly dumbed down the internet. People watch a couple videos supporting what they want to believe and think they're educated. It's pretty much ruined debate.
Other reasons I've considered for posting at atheist sites:
4 - Spreading the word
5 - Learning about the latest in anti-Christian propaganda in order to be prepared to discuss it in other places
So, what do I think about those reasons now?
1-Learning and 3-challenging my faith were valid for a time. But, the quality of discourse has dropped so low that I don't think those are currently valid reasons.
2-arguing as a hobby is as valid as dong crosswords for a hobby I suppose, but it's really a waste of time.
4-evangelizing - this can be used to justify a short time at an atheist site, but not a continued presence. There are general passages on sharing the word and setting an example that can be brought up to justify posting at such a site. But, a rule of interpretation is that the specific overrules the general, and the specific verses on the subject are clear:
Matt 7
6 Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
Matt 10
14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
5-learning about the latest arguments - I can do that without posting.
So, on reflection, why am I here?
My presence here is nothing more than a bad habit.
Prov. 26-11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
Unless I see a convincing argument to the contrary, I'm going to leave the site at the conclusion of this discussion.
@CL: There are plenty of Christian sites where you can make online friends, and those sites would be better for you.
