Covid 19 conspiracies dump

[Ronaldo]

Debating multiple people can be problematic so i'll just debate you for now if you don't mind

You say its the unvaxed... According to who? The mainstream media? With all the misinformation they have been giving they can't be trusted...
I can pull out a claim from conservative media contradicting that, so i prefer to just use the data we have
And if it is the unvaxed then why the continued alarmism... They chose their fate, let them deal with their fate and open up our cities

The claim was that a 70% vaccination rate would stop the pandemic and end lockdowns... Or that vaxing the elderly would do that
It hasn't... The alarmism is still higher than ever and the lockdowns are harsher than ever

An effective vaccine makes a person immune. 
But you can still catch and transmit the virus with these experimental vaccines which is why masks, lockdowns and such continue...

The fact that you need booster shots is another obvious fact that they don't work as well as expected
And who are these people testing positive? Cos the anti-vaxers aren't getting tested, thats for sure

To be fair, a counter argument could be that they are working because there are less deaths...
There are indeed less deaths... Doesn't prove it but it supports the claim that their working
But they still continue to focus on cases as the main marker
And my point is that it hasn't ended the pandemic and lockdowns like they said it would nor has it provided immunity

So to conclude...
Are they effective in producing immunity like they claimed? No... You can still catch and transmit covid
Is their claim of it ending the pandemic true? No... The pandemic continues along with all the alarmism that surrounds it

PS. If your wondering im pro choice... I have a doctors exemption for the vaccines so i can exercise my right to choose... Many don't have that right anymore. Their being bribed, blackmailed, extorted, coerced and even held hostage for ransom to take these experimental needles. All of which are criminal offences... Im lucky to be still working as the state i live in Australia hasn't had to deal with it, but on the mainland, its ludacris, more people are dying from lockdown suicides than covid now and many people i know over their are really suffering in many different ways

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1. No, I don't mind.

2. But you're using the data in a selective, bias-confirming manner. Yes, cases are spiking in some areas, but you jump to attributing that to vaccine failure. This is a no good way to use data. Since cases are spiking in those areas with lower vaccination rates, it makes perfect sense to attribute the spike (provisionally, at least) not to the failure of the vaccine, but to failure to GET the vaccine. And alarmism is still necessary even with the unvaxxed, simply because these are the ones who are MUCH more likely to spread the disease. You live in Australia, where something like 30% of the population is fully vaccinated. This means nearly 70% of the population is still at elevated risk.

3. As I recall, there was never a consensus about what level of vaccination would produce herd immunity. But I'll play along and assume it's 70%.
Have a butcher's at this and look at the countries who've reached the 70% mark (the UK, US and Israel are notably absent). So, you need to stop whinging that vaccine don't work when 70% of the population has been vaccinated, and then pointing to countries with a spike in cases where 70% have NOT been vaccinated.

4. An effective vaccine doesn't 'make a person immune' - it confers an increased level of immunity. Read up on Dr. Jenner's work - nothing's changed. No, masks and lockdowns continue (or more correctly, resume) because local governments, at the first sign of a drop in new cases, re-opened their economies too soon. Their stated reason for this was that dollars are more important than people.

5. Plenty of vaccines require boosters, this is nothing new. But you're correct - anti-vaxxers aren't getting tested, which is why the rate of new hospital admissions for COVID directly correlates with the number of unvaccinated people in any given area. They wait until they're taking up an ICU bed to confirm COVID.

6. You point is wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Vaccine resistors are the ones fueling the spike. Breakthroughs account for a tiny, tiny fraction of new cases and an even smaller fraction of new hospital admissions.

7. To conclude: You're wrong about the level of vaccinations, wrong about immunity, wrong about why the pandemic hasn't ended.

8 (your post script). I sorry and saddened that you have this 'choice' - the 'choice' to put other people at risk. Luckily for you, it isn't up to me. If it were, you and people like you would be dragged out of your home or place of work or the coffee shop where you're working on your dystopian novel, restrained, and be vaccinated by force.

Boru

- The left wing media say its the unvaxed and the right wing media say its vaxed... So im not buying it...
Israel is the most vaxed nation and have the biggest spike... That completely rules out any notion of it lowering cases in that country at least
Ok not all nations are experiencing a spike but you only need some nations to spike to show that its not as effective as they said it would be

- Im not saying they definitely don't work. To be fair i made the counter argument that perhaps they are working cos the deaths are lower

- Effective vaccines have always made a person immune... The definition of vaccine contains this "provide immunity against one or several diseases"  
If it doesn't provide immunity then how is it possible to reach herd immunity? Its not
And if they don't provide immunity then whats the use of getting vaxed in the first place?

- Boosters was never part of the deal... The claim was that these vaccines would end covid without boosters... They haven't.

- If its the vaxed testing positive then what are the unvaxed worried about? Why not let the unvaxed deal with their health choice?

- Im wrong about the pandemic not ending am i??? No im not... The pandemic is alive and strong all around the world

You totally missed my point and kind of used strawmen... My argument is against their claims
They said these vaccines would provide immunity... They don't
They said these vaccines would end the pandemic... They haven't... The fact that boosters are needed proves they didn't work as well as they said it would

There is no data to show these vaccines are working... I challenge you to provide such data. Not media claims but actual data

Over here now to return home to the state of Victoria from NSW a person must
- Be vaxed
- Quarantine in NSW for 14 days
- Get a negative covid test
- Quarantine again for 14 days in Victoria
So if their so effective then why must a person go through all that other rubbish while still wearing masks and being subjected to lockdowns???

Here is Fauci talking about "herd immunity"



So i ask again
How can a vaccine that doesn't create immunity create herd immunity???

Please respond to my highlighted questions... Cheers

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This a good time to remind everyone what we are dealing with... A virus that is about as deadly as a bad seasonal flu...
This isn't the opinion of CNN or FOX or anyone... It is raw data from the CDC



Shooting everyone with experimental needles (their not vaccines if they don't provide immunity) is careless and reckless to say the least...
No one knows what the long term effects are and there are already so many reported deaths and adverse reactions and even more unreported
Yet they continue with the erroneous phrase "safe and effective"

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Really safe and effective... I believe the CDC has even more deaths...
And less than 10% of cases get reported... So what is the real figure...


The swine flu vaccine in the 70s got pulled after 25 deaths, now we're accepting hundreds of thousands of them...
Its murder... Yes its murder. 
If i have a product and claim its safe and effective then it did all this then i would be liable but these companies are free from liability... 

Its homicide and there is no justification for that... Its risks should be disclosed to all, but its not
Forcing an experimental injection 
is unethical according to medical standards and practice, 
is immoral as it harms people without warning
is unlawful under constitution
is criminal under international law

And i just heard Joe Biden claim that 80 million Americans aren't vaxed... That means 75% of them are yet it hasn't stopped anything...
In fact i could argue its made it worse if i used conservative media opinions but i won't... I prefer to use data and the data refutes their claims of "safe and effective". Israel alone refutes them