Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 16, 2024, 7:34 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Kalam
#15
RE: Kalam
(November 28, 2022 at 11:07 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: If God is the uncaused cause, as neo-Thomists and others assert, then his existence has no reason.  His existence is simply a brute fact. 

And if God's existence has no basis in reason, then there is also no reason to assert he is the solitary uncaused cause.  He may very well be one of many uncaused causes.

Exactly.  People find the Kalam convincing because they hold a flawed view of causality.  They hold an events based view of causation.  Everything is a result of an antecedant cause or event.  But in my view this is wrong.  Once you concede that something can exist without a cause there is simply no need for "God" as an explanation.  

I think that every action has a cause - some entity takes an action - but not every entity has a cause.  The nature of any action an entity performs is determined by the nature of the entity.  A is A.  If A exists, it must be A.  If A acts, it must act as A and not non-A.  

Hume got it wrong.  The necessary relationship is not between events but between an entity and its actions.  

The Kalam has many other flaws but What LinuxGal pointed out is sufficient to refute the Kalam.  

Whenever someone asks where anything came from the proper answer is that it came from existence.  There is nowhere else for things to come from.  

Folks, it really is that easy to refute theism.  Why does it persist?  Because people want to believe it.
"Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture,  an intransigent mind, and a step that travels unlimited roads."

"The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see."
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 28, 2022 at 11:07 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 28, 2022 at 11:16 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 28, 2022 at 11:34 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 28, 2022 at 11:51 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 5:20 am
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 29, 2022 at 6:25 am
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - November 29, 2022 at 9:47 am
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - November 30, 2022 at 7:43 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 30, 2022 at 7:59 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 8:01 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 30, 2022 at 8:09 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 9:12 pm
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - November 30, 2022 at 9:30 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 10:24 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 30, 2022 at 9:47 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 10:38 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 12:48 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 1, 2022 at 7:43 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - December 1, 2022 at 7:50 am
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 8:39 am
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 8:50 am
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2022 at 10:34 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 11:05 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 11:06 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 2, 2022 at 10:45 am
RE: Kalam - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2022 at 11:30 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 1, 2022 at 10:12 am
RE: Kalam - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2022 at 3:03 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 4:15 pm
RE: Kalam - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2022 at 7:17 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 9:19 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 1:03 am
RE: Kalam - by The Architect Of Fate - December 1, 2022 at 2:58 am
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2022 at 8:49 am
RE: Kalam - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - December 1, 2022 at 5:08 am
RE: Kalam - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 29, 2022 at 5:29 am
RE: Kalam - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2022 at 2:51 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 29, 2022 at 6:40 am
RE: Kalam - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 29, 2022 at 7:19 am
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - November 29, 2022 at 9:49 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 10:29 am
RE: Kalam - by Nay_Sayer - November 29, 2022 at 10:30 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 11:08 pm
RE: Kalam - by Nay_Sayer - November 30, 2022 at 3:16 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 10:54 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 7:56 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 10:10 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 10:27 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 10:37 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 10:45 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 11:01 pm
RE: Kalam - by Deesse23 - November 30, 2022 at 5:04 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 30, 2022 at 6:23 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 7:59 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 30, 2022 at 9:06 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 10:23 am
RE: Kalam - by Deesse23 - November 30, 2022 at 12:37 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 12:45 pm
RE: Kalam - by Nay_Sayer - November 30, 2022 at 1:26 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - November 30, 2022 at 6:46 pm
RE: Kalam - by Objectivist - November 29, 2022 at 7:33 pm
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - November 30, 2022 at 10:13 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 1, 2022 at 5:11 pm
RE: Kalam - by The Architect Of Fate - December 1, 2022 at 6:04 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 6:11 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 7:34 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - December 1, 2022 at 10:10 pm
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - December 2, 2022 at 12:25 am
RE: Kalam - by arewethereyet - December 4, 2022 at 1:29 pm
RE: Kalam - by GrandizerII - December 4, 2022 at 10:01 am
RE: Kalam - by emjay - December 4, 2022 at 11:35 am
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 4, 2022 at 5:41 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 4, 2022 at 6:29 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - December 6, 2022 at 9:17 pm
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - December 6, 2022 at 8:06 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 6, 2022 at 8:11 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Questions on the Kalam Cosmological argument MindForgedManacle 10 2717 July 26, 2013 at 9:37 am
Last Post: little_monkey



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)