RE: Psalm 137:9
September 16, 2017 at 7:57 pm
(This post was last modified: September 16, 2017 at 8:02 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(September 15, 2017 at 4:20 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:(September 14, 2017 at 6:34 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: *emphasis mine*
It was forbidden to force someone in to servitude against their will.
"Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper's possession. - Exodus 21:16
Ummm...that's an admonition against kidnapping, not forcing people into servitude. Hence:
Quote:Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Look dummy, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because you're clearly ignorant of scripture, now you're just crossed all the way in to stupid territory.
Taking someone against their will IS kidnapping, what you do with the person afterwards DOESN'T NEGATE THAT FACT.
The Bible is clear, the penalty for kidnapping is death.
That being said, what did I tell you guys about bible translations? Stick to the KJV because there is a lot of nuance to how it uses words as compared to later translations.
Quote:Leviticus 25:44-46King James Version (KJV)
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
"Heathen" and "nation" do not mean the same thing, but more importantly, "possession" and "property" are not the same (as your version conflates the two), Just because something is in ones possession doesn't mean it's their property. If I let you borrow a tool, that tool comes into your possession but is NOT your property... got it?
What the bible is describing IS NOT CHATTEL SLAVERY, it is indentured servitude which was entered into on a completely voluntary basis, it was quite common for one to sell themselves into servitude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery
Quote:Voluntary slavery (or self-sale) is the condition of slavery entered into at a point of voluntary consent. In ancient times, this was a common way for impoverished people to provide subsistence for themselves or their family and provision was made for this in law. For example, the code of Hammurabi stated that "besides being able to borrow on personal security, an individual might sell himself or a family member into slavery". In medieval Russia, self-sale was the main source of slaves.
In ancient times, one of the most direct ways to become a Roman or Greek citizen was by means of a self-sale contract. The laws surrounding Roman and Greek manumission made it quite possible for such erstwhile slaves to then become citizens or near-citizens themselves.
(September 15, 2017 at 4:20 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: As long as slaves were bought and paid for via "legitimate" means, they were basically oxen. They had practically no rights unless they were Jewish, and even Jewish slaves could be kept forever if they didn't want to leave their families behind. The bible is pro-slavery. Your gymnastics are unimpressive.
Again, another bald faced lie...
How do you explain this then?
Leviticus 25
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.
sounds like a "right" to me...
(September 15, 2017 at 4:20 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:Quote:Do you guys just parrot the same scripture without any knowledge of the customs? So much for critical thought...
Murder was punishable by death, however manslaughter is not, if the servant died from the beating the same day, that was MURDER, if he died a few days later that shows the intent was not to kill him, therefore it was MANSLAUGHTER.
This does not mean you were off the hook for his death, it just meant that you weren't punished in an official capacity, however the victims family had the right to take justice for themselves (eye for an eye remember) unless you made it to a city of refuge first.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/blood-avenger
*emphasis mine*
So please stop propagating the false narrative that one can beat his servant and as long as he doesn't die for a few days it's fine.
That's a bald faced lie.
Oh really? What's this then?
Quote:Exodus 21:18-20
18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed, 19 then if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall have him thoroughly healed.
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
So, to be clear, voluntary manslaughter of one's slaves is not to be avenged because those slaves are literal property. What was that about knowledge of customs?
I already addressed this, are you seriously going to double down? If he survives a day you two and DOESN'T DIE he is not to be avenged... if he dies, it is the right of the family to take revenge, no if's, ands, or butts.
In the first example if you injured someone who wasn't a servant, you were responsible for his care and paid for his loss of time.
If you permanently injured your servant, he was allowed to go free, you didn't give him money BECAUSE YOU ALREADY PAID HIM FOR HIS TIME WHEN HE SOLD HIMSELF TO YOU.
Quote:Exodus 21
26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
Either way, you lost money.