...If you say Pol Pot was not a Buddhist one more time I'm going to flip out. Yes. Pol Pot WAS a Buddhist. He attended a Buddhist Monastery and in case you did not know people don't study at Buddhist monasteries for anything other than the sake of studying Buddhism. And chances are pretty good if you're studying Buddhism [and given that he was in a nation where Buddhism was the majority belief system] you're probably a Buddhist.
http://www.marxmail.org/archives/July99/...ol_pot.htm
He was raised as a Buddhist. He was educated as a Buddhist and later as a catholic. Was he when he became the founder of the Khmer Rouge? We have no idea since the man didn't exactly have anything written about him [anti-intellectualist, remember], it's highly unlikely given that they were not given any kind of leeway under his regime and were in fact directly targeted [along with anyone who was a scholar, too, regardless of beliefs], but the fact that his education was both buddhist and catholic throughout his entire academic life? It's something to keep in mind. Its relevance? A mystery, and one we may never really fully understand but it also is something that may very well be attributed to what he became.
Religious monasteries do not fit the bill of broader-term communism [IE Marxist communism], and monasteries involve only small groups of individuals divorced from the rest of the world. They have no power and people enter into them willingly and can leave if they so desire as you mentioned. These are not totalitarian systems, they are basically just a very simple form of communism. But get this, there's also such thing as a non-religious form of small-communism. Ever been to a farming co-op? I've been to several, and all but two of them [I must've been to around a dozen] were secular and had no religious doctrine of any kind. People just worked and shared alike, that was it. In fact there are some companies that are communist companies; the entire company is run by the employees themselves and there are no CEOs or anything. Small-scale communism never hurts anyone because it's a small group of people sharing their beliefs with each other, and believe you me, if ALL religion was like that? I'd have no problem with it whatsoever.
But it's not like that. The catholic church cannot be compared to a monastery, even a monastery for nuns, because the monasteries of the nuns still answer to the Church. You ARE surrendering your mind to a ruler, whom you refer to as god, but you're also surrendering your life to this god as well. Does it hurt anyone else? I would be able to say no except for the Church's history with torturing people into conversion and confession regardless of whether or not they committed a crime [all it took was an accusation]. And you do not get to just freely leave. Well, NOW you can, but as you said before, the term of heresy and its punishment was reserved only for catholics who went against church doctrine, and you'd better hope that maybe some of those that the Inquisition and the church in general executed for heresy were atheists or pagans because if they were all catholics then that means that the catholic church is, indeed, a totalitarian system. Or was. And it's interesting to note that the only reason it wasn't was because of the reformations, which basically means doing away with dogma. Which again implies imperfection in the church, and if something is not perfect it does not deserve to claim itself a moral paragon...which the church does.
And yes, the church says you are damned. Shall I bring up the scripture?
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8, you are aware of it, yes? What about Hosea 13:16? That's a REAL winner:
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
Yeah, that's some REAL nice imagery, there. OH! And what about Timothy 6:1-2?
Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these things.
That last one is just for me but basically it says that if you're a slave and your master is a believer then therefore you should honor him and not complain and that you should love him instead of resisting. The gist of it? "Slavery is OK if your master is a christian!"
Not totalitarian? Uh, yeah, ok, sure...how did you put it? "Whatever helps you sleep at night."
And I've been in a convent. I've also been in to a nightclub named Inferno and trust me when I say that I felt far more comfortable in the nightclub.
Heh. Hell was more like heaven to me... XD I didn't even realize I was making a joke until I finished typing that sentence.
But of course being in a communal setting with like-minded people is going to bring a profound sense of peace and comfort; why do you think we atheists have this forum?
See, that is why there is such bile towards theists here. Many of us have been prejudiced against by theists. Do you think that we are left entirely alone and that this hatred just comes naturally? Your perception is that we just gather and talk shit. You don't wonder why. The bible is full of scripture constantly blasting non-believers and regardless of whether or not YOU believe them in that context there are a great many christians who do and they take to those verses with a gusto. You cannot sit here and tell me that christians hate atheists because of historical issues any more than I can tell you atheists today hate the religious for historical issues.
My hatred towards the religious does not stem from what they've done to others. It stems from the fact none of them can leave me the fuck alone. That every time it comes out that I'm an atheist suddenly I am looked upon as inferior or evil or some other bullshit from people who otherwise know little or nothing about me. I don't even get the chance to say that I'm a secular humanist and that I always strive to do better by others and leave others in better situations than before I encountered them when it's possible; their opinion of me is already darkened, and it never improves.
It happens all the fucking time. The religious who do NOT treat me in such a way are the exception rather than the rule.
So THAT, Mr. "ScienceLoveGod," is why people like me and Min are so hostile towards theists. So shut the fuck up and eat a dick and take your presumptuous bullshit and shove it up your ass. I do not welcome you here because you are exactly the epitome of everything I fucking hate about the religious. At least Aiza has the common courtesy to not be a bitch and presume shit about us, but you? Fuck off. You said exactly the wrong fucking things and I will entertain no desire to show any respect or kindness to you. Piss off.
http://www.marxmail.org/archives/July99/...ol_pot.htm
He was raised as a Buddhist. He was educated as a Buddhist and later as a catholic. Was he when he became the founder of the Khmer Rouge? We have no idea since the man didn't exactly have anything written about him [anti-intellectualist, remember], it's highly unlikely given that they were not given any kind of leeway under his regime and were in fact directly targeted [along with anyone who was a scholar, too, regardless of beliefs], but the fact that his education was both buddhist and catholic throughout his entire academic life? It's something to keep in mind. Its relevance? A mystery, and one we may never really fully understand but it also is something that may very well be attributed to what he became.
Religious monasteries do not fit the bill of broader-term communism [IE Marxist communism], and monasteries involve only small groups of individuals divorced from the rest of the world. They have no power and people enter into them willingly and can leave if they so desire as you mentioned. These are not totalitarian systems, they are basically just a very simple form of communism. But get this, there's also such thing as a non-religious form of small-communism. Ever been to a farming co-op? I've been to several, and all but two of them [I must've been to around a dozen] were secular and had no religious doctrine of any kind. People just worked and shared alike, that was it. In fact there are some companies that are communist companies; the entire company is run by the employees themselves and there are no CEOs or anything. Small-scale communism never hurts anyone because it's a small group of people sharing their beliefs with each other, and believe you me, if ALL religion was like that? I'd have no problem with it whatsoever.
But it's not like that. The catholic church cannot be compared to a monastery, even a monastery for nuns, because the monasteries of the nuns still answer to the Church. You ARE surrendering your mind to a ruler, whom you refer to as god, but you're also surrendering your life to this god as well. Does it hurt anyone else? I would be able to say no except for the Church's history with torturing people into conversion and confession regardless of whether or not they committed a crime [all it took was an accusation]. And you do not get to just freely leave. Well, NOW you can, but as you said before, the term of heresy and its punishment was reserved only for catholics who went against church doctrine, and you'd better hope that maybe some of those that the Inquisition and the church in general executed for heresy were atheists or pagans because if they were all catholics then that means that the catholic church is, indeed, a totalitarian system. Or was. And it's interesting to note that the only reason it wasn't was because of the reformations, which basically means doing away with dogma. Which again implies imperfection in the church, and if something is not perfect it does not deserve to claim itself a moral paragon...which the church does.
And yes, the church says you are damned. Shall I bring up the scripture?
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8, you are aware of it, yes? What about Hosea 13:16? That's a REAL winner:
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
Yeah, that's some REAL nice imagery, there. OH! And what about Timothy 6:1-2?
Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these things.
That last one is just for me but basically it says that if you're a slave and your master is a believer then therefore you should honor him and not complain and that you should love him instead of resisting. The gist of it? "Slavery is OK if your master is a christian!"
Not totalitarian? Uh, yeah, ok, sure...how did you put it? "Whatever helps you sleep at night."
And I've been in a convent. I've also been in to a nightclub named Inferno and trust me when I say that I felt far more comfortable in the nightclub.
Heh. Hell was more like heaven to me... XD I didn't even realize I was making a joke until I finished typing that sentence.
But of course being in a communal setting with like-minded people is going to bring a profound sense of peace and comfort; why do you think we atheists have this forum?
See, that is why there is such bile towards theists here. Many of us have been prejudiced against by theists. Do you think that we are left entirely alone and that this hatred just comes naturally? Your perception is that we just gather and talk shit. You don't wonder why. The bible is full of scripture constantly blasting non-believers and regardless of whether or not YOU believe them in that context there are a great many christians who do and they take to those verses with a gusto. You cannot sit here and tell me that christians hate atheists because of historical issues any more than I can tell you atheists today hate the religious for historical issues.
My hatred towards the religious does not stem from what they've done to others. It stems from the fact none of them can leave me the fuck alone. That every time it comes out that I'm an atheist suddenly I am looked upon as inferior or evil or some other bullshit from people who otherwise know little or nothing about me. I don't even get the chance to say that I'm a secular humanist and that I always strive to do better by others and leave others in better situations than before I encountered them when it's possible; their opinion of me is already darkened, and it never improves.
It happens all the fucking time. The religious who do NOT treat me in such a way are the exception rather than the rule.
So THAT, Mr. "ScienceLoveGod," is why people like me and Min are so hostile towards theists. So shut the fuck up and eat a dick and take your presumptuous bullshit and shove it up your ass. I do not welcome you here because you are exactly the epitome of everything I fucking hate about the religious. At least Aiza has the common courtesy to not be a bitch and presume shit about us, but you? Fuck off. You said exactly the wrong fucking things and I will entertain no desire to show any respect or kindness to you. Piss off.
