everyone (else) seems to be hating on atheists

[Aiza]

...If you say Pol Pot was not a Buddhist one more time I'm going to flip out. Yes. Pol Pot WAS a Buddhist. He attended a Buddhist Monastery and in case you did not know people don't study at Buddhist monasteries for anything other than the sake of studying Buddhism. And chances are pretty good if you're studying Buddhism [and given that he was in a nation where Buddhism was the majority belief system] you're probably a Buddhist.

I guess if you mean prior to him becoming a Marxist then okay.

Religious monasteries do not fit the bill of broader-term communism [IE Marxist communism]

I hope not given the fact that Marxism is atheist by definition.

You ARE surrendering your mind to a ruler, whom you refer to as god, but you're also surrendering your life to this god as well. Does it hurt anyone else? I would be able to say no except for the Church's history with torturing people into conversion and confession regardless of whether or not they committed a crime [all it took was an accusation]. And you do not get to just freely leave. Well, NOW you can, but as you said before, the term of heresy and its punishment was reserved only for catholics who went against church doctrine, and you'd better hope that maybe some of those that the Inquisition and the church in general executed for heresy were atheists or pagans because if they were all catholics then that means that the catholic church is, indeed, a totalitarian system. Or was. And it's interesting to note that the only reason it wasn't was because of the reformations, which basically means doing away with dogma. Which again implies imperfection in the church, and if something is not perfect it does not deserve to claim itself a moral paragon...which the church does.

The Church doesn't claim that all of the actions of her members are going to be moral ones. Only her doctrines will be morally good. At one time, members of the church thought it was OK to torture so long as you didn't draw blood. It was never explicitly stated as a good action in any Catechism or in any dogma. The Church has apologized for this and torture has since been banned altogether as contrary to the virtue of Charity (which is more than you can say for the US Govt).

You do surrender in obedience to the Church, and in the same way when you join a monastery you vow obedience to your religious superior. However its not about controlling every aspect of your life or the economy, etc. I will admit that even if it "only" killed a few thousand people, the Spanish Inquisition is probably the closest religion has ever come to state atheism, the ugliest time of the Church for sure.

Most of the heretics executed were Protestants obviously. Pagans and atheists aren't heretics.

And yes, the church says you are damned. Shall I bring up the scripture?

No, since neither you nor I have any authority to interpret Scripture. You can bring up a Catechism or book of Canon Law if you prefer. The Church allows for salvation of those who do not believe in God.

But of course being in a communal setting with like-minded people is going to bring a profound sense of peace and comfort; why do you think we atheists have this forum?

I am sorry to hear that people have judged you, I also get judged by non-Catholics when I say I am a very devout Catholic.

Yes, they were awful, awful people. I'm not defending them. They were totally not cool. I'm just not grasping what it has to do with me. I wish I could spare as much energy ranting about the Aztecs as you do about the communists, but I would just feel too ridiculous.

It seemed as if you were trying to make it out like they were happy to support religion or that they didn't really mind religion. State atheism has killed a lot of religious people in living memory. The Aztec government was centuries ago. If Christians had killed and suppressed tens of thousands of atheists just in the last century you might also have the energy to rant.

It's the societal default because almost everyone teaches it to their children. If you select for people who were never taught it, it's a different kettle of fish.

Is it? Do you have any evidence of this at all? A religious education is not required for theism, and plenty of atheists do get religious education.

I don't include you in that category, although you seem awfully interested in finding factoids that make us look bad, you don't seem to be suffering from profoundly basic ignorance about atheism. I haven't heard you say you were an atheist because you were angry at God or so you could party hardy.

I look for those factoids mainly to refute those who say "religion is a poison" or "religion harms society", "religious people are crazy" etc. It's nice to have studies which show the exact opposite.

Well I never partied hardy, but I think the initial spark may have been embarrassment at my own family's piousness (though it obviously went on from there). Its weird now though, that I have surpassed them all in devotion so now if anything I am upset they didn't raise me religious enough! My poor parents...

I also still called out to Saint Anthony in times of distress and panic. He's not remotely God, but it's funny he that he is such a precious person to me that even back then I still prayed to him. I am thinking about taking his name as my religious name.

Having been a Pentecostal, I can assure that your experience is not universal. The worse you were before 'being saved', the more likely you'll be able to build a preaching career out of it, and 'I was an atheist' is a nice cap to 'I was a whoring, heroin-shooting, boozing, rock musician'. 'Satanist' is good, too. I'm not threatened by the idea of atheists converting. I'm irritated by how stupid most of the ones who say they were atheists sound. I'm not against theism, or Christianity, or nuns, or ex-atheists who are convincing. I'm against stupidity and dishonesty. And you got into my motives, uncharitably, again.

I apologize if I was uncharitable to you. I have had some atheists tell me to my face that there can be no such thing as an ex-atheist, so when you started talking about "either lying or mistaken"I lumped you in there. I never met the people you describe in Catholicism, and there is definitely a bias in Catholicism toward those who are cradle Catholic. Converts are OK (and I've met ex-Protestant, ex-agnostic, and ex-Buddhist sisters) but if you ever admit to going apostate, its a red flag.

But OK yes, your explanation does make much better sense to me now.

I hope it brings you happiness and that you accomplish more good than you otherwise would have.

Aw thank you, I hope so as well. I am never happier than when I am with God.