(April 10, 2013 at 7:53 pm)Godschild Wrote: Before I start to answer your statements I want to say this, Undeceived stated and I should have the beginning of faith comes from God, by the Holy Spirit, referred to as being called by the Father, so faith doesn't even begin with us, it originates with God.
To believe what you just said, I need to believe in God, and round we go...
Quote:I do not have it backwards where God is concerned, nor do you have it wrong where known things exist. To start with knowledge you are starting with some things known. When you start with faith you start with the unknown, concerning God even the faith is unknown at the start. If one has knowledge of something then why do you end up in faith, to me that is not logical.
Ok, if you don't have it backwards where God is concerned, then why did you pick the Christian god and not the Islamic god to begin with? At the very beginning, you don't have knowledge of either, yet you chose to put unjustified faith into one of them. Why is that?
It makes sense that knowledge leads to faith only when we're talking about an action that follows from that knowledge. I could have the knowledge that the chair is made of sturdy parts and from there I could form a belief that it can hold my weight. We could just stop there, but the moment I go sit on it, I'm putting faith into it that it won't collapse on me.
Quote:FtR Wrote:Great, so I have to first a) believe in God so that I can then b) believe in God...
I did not say that, it's not even suggested in my statement, so tell me why did you reply as if I had. I believe you are trying to bring confusion into this conversation. Did I not say F/B/K, why did you jump over faith, the whole F/B/K starts and ends with God, it's up to us to accept. God gives us these gifts it's whether we accept them or not as to hoe deep we go in the relationship wit God.
I said what I said because you are asserting what I said. Look at my bolded bit; I need to believe in God in order to believe in God. You've in fact ditched the entire F/B/K process and just said "our starting point is that God exists". It's unjustified leaps of faith everywhere we look...
Quote:Again my faith was not unjustified, it began with God,
To receive anything from said being, you need to believe in him first... round in circles we go
Quote: It was given to me as it's given to all as my starting point. It was up to me to act upon the faith given me,
Wait, so now it's not you putting faith into him, but rather him giving you the faith?!?! What is going on!
Quote: I could have rejected it at this point, in my case I did not,
Of course you didn't, because even before your "disbelief" you in fact already believed, hence why you can make such statements as "God gave me this, God gave me that".
Quote: many do, then belief comes through revelation from God and I believe most through the scriptures, at this point people will still reject God, for some reason they choose not to believe.
Because they're at the beginning of the entire process. You dress it all up in a way which makes it seem like everything's good so far when in fact you've smuggled in your god's existence into this already.
Quote:Then comes knowledge through the belief in the relationship one has with God, and this knowledge leads to an awesome relationship in the knowledge of God. This is the point I arrived at many years ago and because I've experienced this, with an open mind by the way, I can not understand how it's possible to reject God.
Quote: Having this knowledge of God is as I said before where I have contention with those who say they have come to this point and rejected God. I personally can not understand how one could get the point of knowledge and still reject God.
As far as the 66 99 you purpose I can see that, and can accept it as why many leave God at the points of faith and belief, but not when one comes to the knowledge of God.
Why haven't I accepted other gods, none of them have ever given me the Faith to get started with.
The rest isn't really worthy of a response because it doesn't follow as a logical conclusion. Even your reasoning for not accepting any other god is not logical because you aren't treating them the same way. If you presupposed their existence, then "they" would be more than happy to "give" you faith, as long as you've compromised yourself and decided they are real for no apparent reason like you have done with the Judeo-Christian god.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
