(April 16, 2013 at 3:15 am)Esquilax Wrote:(April 16, 2013 at 12:10 am)Godschild Wrote: The angels were created with free will, that's a given, they rejected their creator. They lived in the presence of God, thus knowing Him from observation. This is how He wanted it apparently. They fell for the same type of lie that Lucifer used on Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve were created with free will, that's a given, they rejected their creator. They lived in the presence of God, thus knowing Him through observation. This is how He wanted it apparently. They fell for the same type of lie that Lucifer used on the angels. So where is it I have things mixed up. God removed Himself from the presence of man and the angels from His presence, both sinful parties were and are removed from God's presence. Again where have I shown a difference. The angels that are still living with God learned by example messing with the will of God is not a thing to be doing. Man, well we still have not learned much.
The part where you've messed up is that both of those are examples of individuals with free will knowing god exists with absolute certainty and still acting exactly how they wanted to. So how is it that absolute knowledge of god contravenes free will?
The knowledge of God's existence does not contravene God given free will, I did not say it did, what I said was when Christ returns your free will is gone, no more, vanished, taken away and ect. This is the price of rejection people will pay, there's no free ride in life why would you believe there would be with God.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.