Iesou Chresto -

[Mark Fulton]

There is a two hour time limit on editing here...just for future reference.

When one of the fundies says something really stupid - happens all the time - I always quote it so they can't go back and change it.

Perhaps, as Suetonius says, they were "Chrestians" who were tossed out of Rome under Claudius? And Pliny describes "Christians" who bear no resemblance to any "jesus" in the early 2d century as goveror of Bithynia-Pontus....coincidentally not so far from Sinope



before 112 AD. It seems more likely that Pliny wrote Chrestians and it was later changed by a helpful scribe.

Here's my two cents worth.

There were Jews who were kicked out of Rome under Claudius' orders, but they weren't Christians.

I think Paul's theology was inspired by the Roman government and was an attempt to undermine Judaism. There may have been many "Pauls," all working for the government, yet is it was only his writings that survived. Remember that Paul wrote a letter "to the Romans," and they quite clearly had some preconceptions about a Christ.

As the 60s progressed, it was obvious that Paul's version of Christianity was having absolutely no effect on dampening down Jewish messianic expectations. Paul (the person) faded off out of the pages of history. The military needed to be bought in. There was the big war of 66 to 70.

I think it was only after the war that the Roman propaganda machine decided to change tack and use a story of Jesus to create the Gospels. This story too was aimed at undermining Judaism.

I think that it was only later in the second century that a rather pathetic attempt to merge Paul's Christ with the story of a once living flesh and blood Jesus was made, and the Christianity that we now know began to take shape. It was a mix of Paul's Christ with the Jewish Jesus. Little remnants of the real Jesus story about the political insurgent were left dangling in the Gospels like dags on a sheep's bottom.

Was there ever a real historical Jesus? Possibly yes... and the barebones of his story was used to create the Jesus of the Gospels. That kicked the Jews directly in the shins, where it really hurt, because for them Jesus had been a brave political wannabe Messiah and an unsuccessful insurgent. The government turned him into something else...a pathetic pacifist who respected Rome, loved his enemies and paid his taxes. The propagandists then twisted the knife by claiming that Jesus' own people, the Jews, were responsible for his death.

Anyway, that's Mark's version of events for your interest.