Dr. Doug Graham (80-10-10 raw vegan)

[miniboes]

there has not been one single ancient tribe identified yet that did not consume meat.

That's not the claim I made, I said primitive humans ate mostly plants. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant anyway, as the argument that to eat meat is natural is a huge appeal to nature fallacy.

1. Vitamin B12 which we cannot get from any plant in its natural form. A number of vegans have found that they cannot absorb B12 orally from supplements and have to have injections.

We do not absorb b12 from meat or dairy very well either, the original source we got it from was the water we drank; B12 is made by bacteria that were present in water, but now that we filter our water it isn't there anymore. B12 supplements are recommended for everyone as the evidence is not clear if their is actually enough b12 in meat.

2. Protein. Some long-term vegans have found that no matter how they altered their diets they couldn't gain any muscle. This may have to do with plant lectins inhibiting protein absorption from plants.

"Some vegans have" is really not an argument, it's just another generalization. Legumes are full of protein and you can get all the amino acids you need from one of the least healthy plant foods; white potato. Animal protein is not actually very healthy; it has been linked to cancer, kidney stones, diabetes, etc. in many studies whilst plant proteins actually reduce the risk of cancer.

3. Cholesterol.

Cholesterol deficiency? Seriously? You worry about that when 1/4th of the deaths in the western world is caused by a heart attack?

4. Vitamin D. Vitamin D is not found in any plants - it is found in Mushroom, I believe, which is a vegan friendly food, or Eggs, or oily Fish. Like cholesterol our body does produce it, however we cannot produce enough on our own we rely on having some dietary vitamin D (I don't have the exact percentage on hand). Vitamin D deficiency is very common, even among non-vegetarians.

Well, the original source of vitamin D is the sun, if you get outside enough you probably won't have a problem with vitamin D, otherwise a supplement is better for your health than eggs or fish.

5. Calcium. Calcium deficiency which leads to osteoporosis is very common among vegans. It leads to osteoporosis, very common among long-term vegans.

Calcium is abundant in leafy greens and motherless milks. I prefer those over milk, which actually makes you piss out calcium and is causes cancer, heart disease and some more of the worlds leading causes of death.

6. Iron. Again iron deficiency is very common in veterinarians.

Yeah, but too much iron and copper will cause Alzheimer's, which I'm not a fan of. The beautiful thing about the iron in plants (which there is more than enough of in leafy greens, whole grains and legumes) is that if you body has enough it can limit the absorption in contrast to the heme iron in meat.

You keep saying "some/many vegans have X", and whilst that might be true, you will find healthy and unhealthy people for every diet group. A vegan can eat Oreo all day long, theoretically. It's not like meat eaters have better health; vegans overall have much lower risk of cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and Alzheimer's. There are also nutrients the standard meat-eater died fails to provide enough of; fiber, antioxidants and phytochemicals. Those three things are exclusively found in plants foods. Sure, you need to think more about what you eat as a vegan, but you can be as healthy, or even much healthier than most meat-eaters.

Most people who live in a developed country are healthy. Most elderly people are healthy are free from debilitating disease. Only in the last 2-3 years of your life as an elderly person would you normally expect to have a serious debilitating condition.

You need to define healthy here. You could call my grandmother healthy as she is not quite dying, but all of her body hurts and she gets tired extremely quickly. To me, that is not healthy anymore. What I am now; able to move freely, no chronic pains, being able to think absolutely clearly, not having to take any medication, that is healthy to me. By the way, heart disease appears to start at the age of ten, and the only diet that has been able to reverse it is a vegan one. Do you have another diet that can reverse our #1 killer?

Keep in mind the reasons for going vegan are not always health; more compelling reasons are the environment and ethics. But that's another subject entirely.