Dr. Doug Graham (80-10-10 raw vegan)

[Aractus]

That's not the claim I made, I said primitive humans ate mostly plants. Whether or not you agree is irrelevant anyway, as the argument that to eat meat is natural is a huge appeal to nature fallacy.

And they also didn't have agriculture.

The argument you just made means nothing as to whether someone should eat no meat.

Let's say you proved to me beyond any doubt whatsoever that I would be healthier if I breathed 20% less oxygen. If you then tried to tell me that if I breathed no oxygen at all I'd be much healthier still I would be sceptical. To say they are "less meat" than we do today is perhaps true, but also they ate the organ meats which had the highest concentration of vitamins and minerals.

We do not absorb b12 from meat or dairy very well either,

Yes we do, we in fact absorb ALL of our dietary B12 from meat, fish and animal products (eggs and dairy).

the original source we got it from was the water we drank; B12 is made by bacteria that were present in water, but now that we filter our water it isn't there anymore.

Show me the peer review paper you read?

Or is that just some fringe theory?

B12 supplements are recommended for everyone as the evidence is not clear if their is actually enough b12 in meat.

What evidence?

"Some vegans have" is really not an argument, it's just another generalization.

Click here for a very well documented example on youtube.

Legumes are full of protein and you can get all the amino acids you need from one of the least healthy plant foods; white potato. Animal protein is not actually very healthy;

What evidence?

it has been linked to cancer, kidney stones, diabetes, etc.

What evidence?

in many studies whilst plant proteins actually reduce the risk of cancer.

What evidence?

Cholesterol deficiency? Seriously? You worry about that when 1/4th of the deaths in the western world is caused by a heart attack?

Yes I do worry about it because we are supposed to get 15% of our cholesterol from the diet. And plants have no cholesterol.

As to your comment about heart attacks, you clearly have no idea about the consequences of cholesterol deficiency. We have record numbers of mental illness do we not?

Well, the original source of vitamin D is the sun, if you get outside enough you probably won't have a problem with vitamin D, otherwise a supplement is better for your health than eggs or fish.

Incorrect. UV rays stimulate the body to produce vitamin D, it does not exist "in the sun". UV radiation also causes skin cancer. There is no way to get enough vitamin D just from internal synthesis stimulated by sun exposure, especially if you have darker skin.

Calcium is abundant in leafy greens and motherless milks. I prefer those over milk, which actually makes you piss out calcium and is causes cancer, heart disease and some more of the worlds leading causes of death.

Evidence?

Yeah, but too much iron and copper will cause Alzheimer's, which I'm not a fan of.

This time I'm jus calling flat-out bullshit on you. Nobody knows what causes alzheimers.

You need to define healthy here. You could call my grandmother healthy as she is not quite dying, but all of her body hurts and she gets tired extremely quickly.

I can only tell you the statistics for Australia. For people over 70, the majority of them are free of debilitating disease and able to live independently. Only a minority (overall) require medical care, however that medical care is very expensive because the elderly do not recover easily from injury or disease. On average if a person makes it to old age (70+) they can expect to have some medical complications for 5-6 years of their life and more serious ones for the last 2-3. Overall though, most people are healthy - which was my original point, if you remember. And that even includes people over 70.

By the way, heart disease appears to start at the age of ten, and the only diet that has been able to reverse it is a vegan one.

Evidence?

Do you have another diet that can reverse our #1 killer?

High blood cholesterol is lowered by lowering saturated fat in the diet; it has nothing to do with overall fat consumption or overall cholesterol consumption.

Keep in mind the reasons for going vegan are not always health; more compelling reasons are the environment and ethics. But that's another subject entirely.

The environment? So all the land we use rearing animals, most of which is of no use for agriculture, shouldn't be used to grow livestock?