Dr. Doug Graham (80-10-10 raw vegan)

[Aractus]

Sure, and how is that relevant when talking about vitamin b12 or the effect of milk on bone health?

Something else I want to say on the whole B12 thing, but why would you stack up a documented cure for our #1 killer against that one vitamin that you can take a supplement for? Also keep in mind that almost all physicians that recommend the plant-based (vegan) diet, like Neal Barnard and Michael Greger, actually recommend a B12 fortified plant-based diet. Whoever really listens to their advice will not have B12 deficiency.

That is just not true. There are a lot of people who take B12 oral supplements on a vegan diet and find they develop B12 deficiencies anyway. Then they resort to injecting B12; and a huge number of vegans now recognise this and recommend IV B12!

What do you mean with 'balanced'?

Balanced in the sense that you're not trying to make your body produce excessive amounts of things (eg vitamins and cholesterol and other steroids like insulin) that you can get from the diet.

Your anecdotes don't prove anything about a larger group of people, that's the very nature of anecdotes. For many health is the very reason to follow a vegan diet actually, it is the best way to deal with diabetes and CVD.

That wasn't my question, my question was whether a person should stop following a diet that is unhealthy for them?

And Alex Jamieson, as much as you don't want to admit this, is aware of a very large number of people who have encountered health problems when following veganisim and felt judged and betrayed by the vegan community and have told their stories to her. In fact you can even see some of them in the comments section on her blog: "I cannot possibly applaud you enough. I was a long time vegetarian that had terrible health issues so I went vegan hoping to heal myself. I healed some issues, and greatly aggravated others with the enormous amounts of soy and wheat in my diet. It was very difficult to admit that veganism didn’t work for me after three years."

The problem is that you don't know for certain whether veganisim long term will be a healthy or unhealthy choice for an individual person. I'm not arguing that everyone experiences problems long-term, although many do. I'm arguing that people who do experience problems should put their health first, and shouldn't feel judged by those in the vegan community for doing so.

Yeah, I would agree if their findings would actually benefit politicians, but they don't. Most politicians would prefer human-caused GHGs to be a non issue, because then they wouldn't have to do anything.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. There are a huge number of politicians who deliberately use this as an excuse to generate higher tax revenue from essential power supplies, and ultimately that disproportionately disadvantages the poor.

The fact is that around 2007 or 2009 the Hadley Centre assessed the cost and benefit of the impact of the UK government's rather ambitious CO2 emissions cuts would have on long-term climate change, and it came back showing the effect was so small it would not even be measurable with today's climate equipment (it was a tiny fraction of a degree). I know I should have looked up the facts, but I'm not lying about this and you can easily verify this.

No, I am saying anecdotes do not actually prove anything. It's called the anecdotal fallacy.

See also

And I say to you again that you do not know whether veganisim will be healthy or not for individual people.