RE: Our role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums
May 8, 2018 at 6:19 am
(This post was last modified: May 8, 2018 at 6:49 am by SteveII.)
OPENING STATEMENT
PREFACE: I have never had a more difficult time writing a post here. I have been taking a break from AF for over a month and I am still struggling with the question of any participation here. Anyway, here are my thoughts on the subject.
BACKGROUND: Years ago I debated Christianity with a distant relative on Facebook. He believed Christianity was full of holes, science and historical discoveries undercut it at every turn, and the Christian version of morality was indefensible. He had a PhD in Psychology and was a professor at a university. He was well-read and wrote well. I was not prepared for the initial arguments.
I will say that while I couldn’t initially articulate good answers, I did not have a crisis of faith because of the challenges. I knew there were many books addressing these issues—I just hadn’t read any since college (a long time ago). I researched and eventually addressed the issues as much as you can in a FB thread. I found I liked the research and I liked the debate. I was having trouble instigating more debates on FB so I went in search of another forum. I found AF.
Regarding the topic of this discussion, I think the first thing you have to do is distinguish between any personal reasons why someone may frequented AF with any “role” they might perceive. Any “role” that any member assumes is self-imposed. Let me explain what I mean.
Personal reasons are inward focused. Could be that AF is a catalyst for additional learning and re-examining old beliefs and exploring new topics. AF could be a way to hone writing or argumentation skills. As CL mentioned, make some “internet-friends”—or you can go in the opposite direction and rail against some stance or group, and make yourself feel better/smarter/or something.
A ‘role’ in an environment like AF is self-assigned/claimed. It is the performance of a function (outward-focused) that one thinks is necessary, addresses a particular need, or generally adds value to the greater community.
Using these distinctions, I’ll address what I think is the role of a Christian on Atheist Forums
ROLES
First, someone can be a Christian on AF and not consider themselves having a role. If I were asked, I would advise such a person to get their personal goals/needs met somewhere else. There is significant hostility here and unless there is a purpose to endure that hostility, I can't see any reason to seek it. Life is hard enough without assholes making you angry or feel stupid.
Second. Competence comes into play. If you cannot competently execute the assumed role, a Christian does more harm than good. You have to address issues in context, understand the knowledge of and beliefs of your audience and provide only the most basic answers required in a clear, concise and non-combative way.
Third, I think there is a role for Christians here for two reasons:
a. Most non-Christians do not understand Christianity. I'm not talking about a simple lack of knowledge, I am talking about wholesale misunderstanding and believing things about Christianity that is not true. One legitimate role is to correct and educate those that lack knowledge so that 1) they don't propagate their ignorance and 2) that some who read the post might be prompted to engage in a civil discussion of which the goal is to understand the other side.
b. Planting seeds. Most atheist do no understand that their worldview has some features that make less sense then they realize. If circumstances in their lives ever move them to the point of seeking more, I think the knowledge that in general, Christianity has been addressing every issue under the sun a thousand time over and that Christianity consist of a framework of reasoning and beliefs that have withstood the test of time might prompt them to seek more when they are ready. People way more skeptical and smarter then the average denizens of AF become Christians every day.
HOWEVER, it has become clear to me that it is very hard to assess whether these roles are being accomplished and are worth the considerable effort it takes to do it right. The level of discourse regarding religion is mostly juvenile nonsense. The small pockets of legit discussion get derailed by people who's goal is to derail discussion and return things to the happy fog of ignorant misunderstanding of other positions.
ADDRESSING OPENING STATEMENTS
@CL
I think you have a unique position among the Christian posters. You have a gentle spirit that is hard not to like. You remind atheists that Christians are normal people that you can disagree with but still like. Only you can assess the value of that in relation to the time it takes to post here.
@Godscreated
I too have very strong opinions on doctrine. However, I have developed a basic version of Christianity that I usually defend here because opponents are not equipped to understand full-on systematic theology. I think all that needs to be said in most discussions HERE is something like the Roman's Road.
@AlphaMale
I completely understand you frustration and your point that any role you thought might be legit is not worth the time.
@Drich
My personal thoughts are that you put a massive amount of effort into your posts, but a mostly talking past those you are addressing. While I don't think our views are very different about the status of the Bible, it is difficult method of conversation to use as much Bible as you do with people who don't think very much of the Bible. You seem to have a very rich Christian life. Try sharing how God has changed your life and how that might relate to people on a personal level. My 2 cents--take it or leave it.
I will get to the rest later today.
PREFACE: I have never had a more difficult time writing a post here. I have been taking a break from AF for over a month and I am still struggling with the question of any participation here. Anyway, here are my thoughts on the subject.
BACKGROUND: Years ago I debated Christianity with a distant relative on Facebook. He believed Christianity was full of holes, science and historical discoveries undercut it at every turn, and the Christian version of morality was indefensible. He had a PhD in Psychology and was a professor at a university. He was well-read and wrote well. I was not prepared for the initial arguments.
I will say that while I couldn’t initially articulate good answers, I did not have a crisis of faith because of the challenges. I knew there were many books addressing these issues—I just hadn’t read any since college (a long time ago). I researched and eventually addressed the issues as much as you can in a FB thread. I found I liked the research and I liked the debate. I was having trouble instigating more debates on FB so I went in search of another forum. I found AF.
Regarding the topic of this discussion, I think the first thing you have to do is distinguish between any personal reasons why someone may frequented AF with any “role” they might perceive. Any “role” that any member assumes is self-imposed. Let me explain what I mean.
Personal reasons are inward focused. Could be that AF is a catalyst for additional learning and re-examining old beliefs and exploring new topics. AF could be a way to hone writing or argumentation skills. As CL mentioned, make some “internet-friends”—or you can go in the opposite direction and rail against some stance or group, and make yourself feel better/smarter/or something.
A ‘role’ in an environment like AF is self-assigned/claimed. It is the performance of a function (outward-focused) that one thinks is necessary, addresses a particular need, or generally adds value to the greater community.
Using these distinctions, I’ll address what I think is the role of a Christian on Atheist Forums
ROLES
First, someone can be a Christian on AF and not consider themselves having a role. If I were asked, I would advise such a person to get their personal goals/needs met somewhere else. There is significant hostility here and unless there is a purpose to endure that hostility, I can't see any reason to seek it. Life is hard enough without assholes making you angry or feel stupid.
Second. Competence comes into play. If you cannot competently execute the assumed role, a Christian does more harm than good. You have to address issues in context, understand the knowledge of and beliefs of your audience and provide only the most basic answers required in a clear, concise and non-combative way.
Third, I think there is a role for Christians here for two reasons:
a. Most non-Christians do not understand Christianity. I'm not talking about a simple lack of knowledge, I am talking about wholesale misunderstanding and believing things about Christianity that is not true. One legitimate role is to correct and educate those that lack knowledge so that 1) they don't propagate their ignorance and 2) that some who read the post might be prompted to engage in a civil discussion of which the goal is to understand the other side.
b. Planting seeds. Most atheist do no understand that their worldview has some features that make less sense then they realize. If circumstances in their lives ever move them to the point of seeking more, I think the knowledge that in general, Christianity has been addressing every issue under the sun a thousand time over and that Christianity consist of a framework of reasoning and beliefs that have withstood the test of time might prompt them to seek more when they are ready. People way more skeptical and smarter then the average denizens of AF become Christians every day.
HOWEVER, it has become clear to me that it is very hard to assess whether these roles are being accomplished and are worth the considerable effort it takes to do it right. The level of discourse regarding religion is mostly juvenile nonsense. The small pockets of legit discussion get derailed by people who's goal is to derail discussion and return things to the happy fog of ignorant misunderstanding of other positions.
ADDRESSING OPENING STATEMENTS
@CL
I think you have a unique position among the Christian posters. You have a gentle spirit that is hard not to like. You remind atheists that Christians are normal people that you can disagree with but still like. Only you can assess the value of that in relation to the time it takes to post here.
@Godscreated
I too have very strong opinions on doctrine. However, I have developed a basic version of Christianity that I usually defend here because opponents are not equipped to understand full-on systematic theology. I think all that needs to be said in most discussions HERE is something like the Roman's Road.
@AlphaMale
I completely understand you frustration and your point that any role you thought might be legit is not worth the time.
@Drich
My personal thoughts are that you put a massive amount of effort into your posts, but a mostly talking past those you are addressing. While I don't think our views are very different about the status of the Bible, it is difficult method of conversation to use as much Bible as you do with people who don't think very much of the Bible. You seem to have a very rich Christian life. Try sharing how God has changed your life and how that might relate to people on a personal level. My 2 cents--take it or leave it.
I will get to the rest later today.
