Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 28, 2024, 8:26 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Mathematicians who are finitists.
#78
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists.
(July 5, 2019 at 9:09 am)Jehanne Wrote: What's the alternative?  I suppose that you, as the DA, are trying to make a distinction between a potential infinite versus an actual one.
I'm not playing Devil's Advocate. This is not a debate. Either the classical proof of the irrationality of the square root of 2 is a theorem of PRA or it isn't. I'm confident that it is, and the matter can be settled definitively by providing the formalized proof. It could even be checked by a machine.

(July 5, 2019 at 9:09 am)Jehanne Wrote: But, here's the Axiom of Infinity:

[Image: e2d866a2b812cbd6f5e1e1709ee1585b2269bb83]

Wikipedia -- Axiom of Infinity

Now, if one rejects the above axiom, then, one, I suppose is a finitist.
Finitism has stronger constraints. ZF set theory without the axiom of infinity is as expressive as Peano Arithmetic, which is strictly more expressive than primitive recursive arithmetic.

(July 5, 2019 at 9:09 am)Jehanne Wrote: But, consider the harmonic series:
Why are we moving away from the proof that there is no rational square root of 2? I know there are classical theorems that are not provable by finitistic methods. But you seem to be under the mistaken impression that finitism is far weaker than it is. The article I linked early discusses a paper which claims that the majority of contemporary mathematics is formally provable by finitist methods.

(July 5, 2019 at 9:09 am)Jehanne Wrote: I am not sure how finitists deal with the above conundrums, but, of course, if you tire in your role as the DA here, I understand completely!
Statements about convergence can be finitistic. Even classically, a convergence statement about a series that converges as n goes to infinity is formalized as:

for any ε > 0, I can produce N such that f(n) - l < ε for all n > N.

Many such statements can be proven finitistically. You just need a primitive recursive procedure that sends the ε to the N. The "for any" and "for all" can both be moved outermost, so the quantification here is one that a finitist accepts.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 2, 2019 at 8:49 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Fireball - April 2, 2019 at 10:08 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 3, 2019 at 12:10 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Smaug - April 4, 2019 at 4:49 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 5, 2019 at 3:14 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Smaug - April 5, 2019 at 4:04 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by chimp3 - April 4, 2019 at 5:43 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Sal - April 5, 2019 at 3:55 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 6, 2019 at 9:26 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Smaug - April 6, 2019 at 4:33 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 6, 2019 at 10:46 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Smaug - April 7, 2019 at 1:49 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 7, 2019 at 3:52 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Smaug - April 7, 2019 at 5:25 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 8, 2019 at 6:08 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Little lunch - April 7, 2019 at 5:50 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 8, 2019 at 9:56 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Fireball - April 9, 2019 at 10:32 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by robvalue - April 9, 2019 at 6:18 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 9, 2019 at 6:54 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 9, 2019 at 9:46 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 10, 2019 at 8:42 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 10, 2019 at 8:59 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 11, 2019 at 10:48 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 11, 2019 at 11:09 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 11, 2019 at 11:24 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 11, 2019 at 2:13 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 11, 2019 at 3:33 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 11, 2019 at 3:39 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 11, 2019 at 5:17 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 14, 2019 at 7:15 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 14, 2019 at 9:31 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 14, 2019 at 12:07 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 14, 2019 at 1:38 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Fireball - April 9, 2019 at 10:03 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - April 9, 2019 at 11:05 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by robvalue - April 9, 2019 at 1:22 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Sal - April 9, 2019 at 9:28 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 9, 2019 at 9:44 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 15, 2019 at 9:58 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by LastPoet - April 15, 2019 at 12:32 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 15, 2019 at 5:06 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by LastPoet - April 16, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Fireball - April 16, 2019 at 3:25 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - April 16, 2019 at 5:43 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - June 29, 2019 at 6:44 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - June 30, 2019 at 12:03 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by LastPoet - June 30, 2019 at 1:30 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - June 30, 2019 at 3:34 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 1, 2019 at 2:02 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 2, 2019 at 7:50 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 2, 2019 at 11:36 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 2, 2019 at 11:29 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 3, 2019 at 11:51 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 3, 2019 at 10:06 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 4, 2019 at 7:33 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 4, 2019 at 11:24 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Fireball - June 29, 2019 at 10:00 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by LastPoet - July 1, 2019 at 2:38 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 2, 2019 at 1:45 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 4, 2019 at 6:46 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 5, 2019 at 6:36 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 5, 2019 at 9:09 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by A Toy Windmill - July 5, 2019 at 10:50 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 7, 2019 at 3:38 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 8, 2019 at 7:05 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 8, 2019 at 3:38 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 9, 2019 at 7:51 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 9, 2019 at 9:56 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 10, 2019 at 4:55 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 10, 2019 at 7:55 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 10, 2019 at 8:34 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 10, 2019 at 8:19 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 11, 2019 at 2:52 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 11, 2019 at 9:30 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by polymath257 - July 11, 2019 at 10:20 am
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by LastPoet - July 5, 2019 at 12:16 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 5, 2019 at 1:38 pm
RE: Mathematicians who are finitists. - by Jehanne - July 9, 2019 at 2:29 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Question for finitists -- 0.999... = 1? Jehanne 23 3226 November 26, 2022 at 8:40 pm
Last Post: Jehanne



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)