(June 7, 2020 at 3:49 am)brokenreflector Wrote:Oh my goodness man, it doesn't matter if god's moral values are floating around his head or inside his foot, the fact that they are contingent on god means they are subjective. You can not argue that morality isn't contingent on god and then argue that morality can not exist without god. I wasn't arguing that Morals where outside of god, I have been arguing from your position that morality is necessarily a part of god's nature and that makes it subjective.(June 7, 2020 at 12:19 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: by your own definition you are saying morality is subjective to whatever gods nature is.
God's moral values are intrinsically bound up in God's nature and existence. There isn't a "God's moral values" floating around outside God. There's just God's existence and nature. When we use terms like "God's moral values" all we're doing is focusing on an aspect of God. God's existence and nature are unchanging and necessary (exists in all possible worlds). This makes all of His aspects, including His moral values, unchanging and necessary.
Do you not understand that or are you being intellectually dishonest? Or are you trolling?
Quote:Morality being contingent on a mind whether its our mind or gods mind is by definition subjective.
God's morality isn't "contingent on a mind." God's nature, including His moral values, isn't contingent upon anything. He's a necessary being.
Saying the god is the foundation for morality tells us nothing about what makes something moral or immoral, it is simply contingent on what god's nature is and completely subjective.
In a secular moral system we determine what is moral and immoral with respect to a goal and that goal is well-being. So we can make determinations and in some cases even objective determinations about what is moral and immoral with respect to our goal of well-being.