(August 15, 2021 at 11:13 pm)Ahriman Wrote:(August 15, 2021 at 10:54 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Honesty helps. But it also helps to have a clear idea which person we're talking about.Well I was raised Catholic, and us kids were taught to believe Jesus was a very, even ineffably, holy man, and that thinking we could be like Him, was delusional. That's what one of our teachers said, that thinking we could be like Jesus, was "a form of delusion". I know our teacher meant well, but that whole idea of being "delusional", is what put me off Catholicism, post-adolescence. I still love the Church, and have been to Mass a handful of times since my formative years. I think Jesus was an excellent man. He turned water into wine. That's my favorite miracle. i love wine.
If it is Jesus as Leo Tolstoy saw him (an extreme pacifist who led by example), then I admire the guy.
If he is more like the Baptists portray him (a miracle-worker who came to warn us of our impending judgment --his judgement-- and explain that believing the Bible is the only way to avoid eternal torment) then I kinda hate the guy.
Who he actually is matters to my answer. And I don't know. All we have to go on are old writings, mostly stuff other people wrote. There are a plethora of opinions. How should these writings be understood? How literal are they? And what do they reveal about Jesus?
See! Right there! You just presented two different Jesuses (or Jesi as I like to call them). Seeing him as some "out of reach holy man" didn't resonate with you. But that's precisely what many perceive him to be.
I like wine too. And I much prefer wine to water. Since you brought up miracles, I'm curious. How much stock do you put in the miracles of Jesus? Do you think they were real events? Allegory maybe? And what if they did turn out to be embellishments that other people made up? Would that alter how you perceive Jesus? Would you still think he is an "excellent man"?
