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Proverbs 16:4
#70
RE: Proverbs 16:4
(May 20, 2011 at 5:09 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Of course He makes the rules. This is His creation.

"Might makes right" is not a reason to worship anyone. You can pretend to in order to not suffer the negative consequences, but you can't claim that the being you're worshiping is then fair & just.

Quote:You never pointed to where it says you get sent to hell for not worshipping him the right way.

Do I really need to? It's standard Christian doctrine. If I prayed to a rock, worshiped it, and called it "God," would I not be in violation of the first commandment? When I was raised Catholic, I was told all sorts of stuff I couldn't do because it offended God, and if you did it knowingly then you get sent to hell unless you repent & confess. Protestants think that Catholics are going to hell because they pray to statues. Muslims think that Christians are going to hell for eating pork and not bowing to Allah. And each Christian denomination came about because some people in a congregation didn't like what some of the others believed and split off to form their own group.

Quote:God sets up rules for His creatures to follow; He is by no means obligated to follow these rules.

Then he's not a being worth being worshiped. When he tells his followers to not kill, then tells some others to kill everyone in a particular town because they're evil, then you can't trust a deity with a double standard. If he's not even obligated to follow any rules at all, there's nothing that guarantees anyone passage into heaven. He could send everyone who ever existed to hell just for kicks and there's nothing anyone could say or do about it. The trouble is you see no problem with this because you have no problem whatsoever with the idea of a god who can do whatever he wants, and not only that you still call him just and fair. You can call him whatever you want, but you can't change the definition of words.

Quote: He is fair, loving, and just because they are part of His nature, so everything He does is fair, loving, and just regardless of what you think.

Including torturing people for eternity and having people on earth killed on a whim. Gotcha.

Quote:It is fair for both of us to be punished for Adam’s fall because Adam was mankind’s representative.

This is stupid. You're forgetting that God knew that Adam & Eve would disobey, yet he created them and put the fucking tree of knowledge right in the middle of the fucking Garden of Eden and told them not to eat from it. How fair and just is it to punish the entire bulk of humanity when he knew the first two humans would disobey him? To maintain that it's just and fair is just being totally willfully stupid, arrogant, and stubborn. There's no way you could ever justify punishing all of humanity for what the first two humans supposedly did. And where you really fail is that the Adam & Eve story was just a myth to begin with.

Quote: When a country’s representatives declare war on another country, everyone in that country is now at war. When Adam rebelled we all became rebels.

The problem with this is that you can't condemn an entire country just because of what its leaders do. It's not just, nor is it fair. Even after WWII we helped the Germans rebuild and get on with their lives. We jailed the Nazis who were responsible, we didn't jail the entire country for what its leadership did. And you also seem to be forgetting that in some countries the people are not responsible for what their leaders do. So you would be hard pressed to make the claim that they all deserve to be punished.

Quote:You also act as if you have never sinned in your life, something I find highly doubtful.

I haven't. Define "sin" without using supernatural explanations.

Quote: So the whole “it was Adam not me” argument is fairly moot.

Nope, it's not. It's not fair nor just to condemn all of humanity to eternal torture for what two people supposedly did WHEN THE ONE DOING THE CONDEMNING KNEW ALL ALONG THAT THEY WOULD DISOBEY HIM. Sorry for the all-caps, but I feel like I need to scream this point that you seem to be ignoring.

Quote:Where did I say heaven?

When you made the analogy of the better deal of getting a life sentence rather than the death penalty.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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Messages In This Thread
Proverbs 16:4 - by Skipper - May 18, 2011 at 11:15 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Kayenneh - May 18, 2011 at 12:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Skipper - May 18, 2011 at 1:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 18, 2011 at 12:31 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Ace Otana - May 18, 2011 at 12:46 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 18, 2011 at 12:53 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by DeistPaladin - May 18, 2011 at 1:16 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Strongbad - May 18, 2011 at 1:19 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 18, 2011 at 1:27 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 1:41 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Angrboda - May 19, 2011 at 1:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Skipper - May 18, 2011 at 1:45 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 2:00 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Skipper - May 18, 2011 at 2:09 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 2:23 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 18, 2011 at 2:12 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 18, 2011 at 2:57 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 5:43 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 18, 2011 at 6:11 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 6:16 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 18, 2011 at 6:26 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 18, 2011 at 6:42 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 19, 2011 at 6:15 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 19, 2011 at 6:35 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 19, 2011 at 7:52 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Strongbad - May 19, 2011 at 2:47 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 19, 2011 at 3:31 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 19, 2011 at 4:01 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by prayforme - May 20, 2011 at 3:48 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 20, 2011 at 10:15 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Kayenneh - May 18, 2011 at 3:10 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by reverendjeremiah - May 18, 2011 at 7:12 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 18, 2011 at 8:36 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by padraic - May 18, 2011 at 8:46 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by RDK - May 18, 2011 at 9:06 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Eudaimonia - May 18, 2011 at 11:16 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 18, 2011 at 11:55 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 19, 2011 at 5:41 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Darwinian - May 19, 2011 at 5:49 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Godschild - May 19, 2011 at 1:23 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 19, 2011 at 3:07 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by padraic - May 19, 2011 at 3:15 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 19, 2011 at 5:57 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by RDK - May 19, 2011 at 12:15 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 19, 2011 at 12:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 19, 2011 at 1:28 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 19, 2011 at 6:42 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 19, 2011 at 7:00 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 20, 2011 at 2:28 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 3:18 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 20, 2011 at 3:48 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 3:53 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 20, 2011 at 8:00 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 21, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 19, 2011 at 1:47 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Kayenneh - May 19, 2011 at 2:17 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - May 19, 2011 at 7:12 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 19, 2011 at 10:01 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - May 20, 2011 at 3:02 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - May 20, 2011 at 5:06 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by fr0d0 - May 20, 2011 at 5:44 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by prayforme - May 20, 2011 at 3:47 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 20, 2011 at 7:47 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - May 20, 2011 at 8:16 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 21, 2011 at 5:07 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Ace Otana - May 20, 2011 at 2:39 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 20, 2011 at 3:48 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 20, 2011 at 4:51 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 5:09 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 20, 2011 at 5:54 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 5:57 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 20, 2011 at 6:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 6:45 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 20, 2011 at 7:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 20, 2011 at 11:54 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by JohnDG - May 21, 2011 at 4:08 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 21, 2011 at 8:29 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Ace Otana - May 21, 2011 at 8:34 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by RDK - May 21, 2011 at 4:47 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by RDK - May 21, 2011 at 10:12 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Cinjin - May 22, 2011 at 4:25 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by bbrettle - May 22, 2011 at 7:58 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by fr0d0 - May 22, 2011 at 8:04 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by bbrettle - May 23, 2011 at 1:22 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by fr0d0 - May 23, 2011 at 7:41 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 23, 2011 at 12:59 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 23, 2011 at 5:25 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 25, 2011 at 4:52 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 25, 2011 at 6:17 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 25, 2011 at 6:58 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 23, 2011 at 6:37 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 24, 2011 at 6:41 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 25, 2011 at 7:45 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - June 4, 2011 at 8:52 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Anymouse - May 25, 2011 at 7:54 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 26, 2011 at 11:37 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 26, 2011 at 4:32 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 29, 2011 at 8:59 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 26, 2011 at 6:55 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - June 6, 2011 at 9:21 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - June 8, 2011 at 6:17 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - June 8, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - June 8, 2011 at 6:32 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - June 8, 2011 at 6:35 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - June 9, 2011 at 6:53 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - June 9, 2011 at 7:06 am



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