Cthulhu's Wager

[Jackalope]

Most if not all of us are familiar with Pascal's Wager - the premise that there is much to gain and nothing to lose by belief in and worship of god, and nothing to gain from disbelief, and therefore a rational person should believe in god and act accordingly.

There are many conventional arguments against Pascal's wager, and I'll be avoiding them entirely.

Is it true that there is really nothing to lose by worshiping god?

Pascal's one-size-fits-all argument fails when you consider that the concept of "gain/loss" is a personal value judgement and presupposes that certain conditions can be universally considered beneficial. This is not the case.

If one's personal views on ethics, justice and morality are closely aligned with those that are claimed to be held by the god in question, and one finds value in the reward of eternal afterlife in the presence of said god, then one might find the wager convincing.

On the other hand, if one finds god's ethics, justice and morality to be deficient or even malignant, one could not be expected to be thrilled by the prospect of spending an eternity worshiping said god. To such a person, Pascal's Wager is a losing proposition.

[leo-rcc]

I would have figured Cthulhu's Wager would involve making sure to be eaten first.

[Welsh cake]

Is it true that there is really nothing to lose by worshiping god?

No.

Even if there's a god you lose all self-respect and dignity for starters, and then there's the staggering irretrievable amount of time you wasted praying to this deity during your one-and-only life.

Muslims who pray 5-a-day have my sympathies.

[Jackalope]

I would have figured Cthulhu's Wager would involve making sure to be eaten first.

Shit. I forgot that part.

[5thHorseman]

'Muslims who pray 5-a-day have my sympathies'

Not mine.

[Minimalist]

'Muslims who pray 5-a-day have my sympathies'

Not mine.

Right. They could wake the fuck up and stop. WTF kind of "god" would want to hear such relentless chanting 5 times a day from a billion assholes anyway?

I'd kill them just to get some peace and quiet.

[Doubting Thomas]

Same here. They're the ones making a conscious decision to pray five times a day.

The problem with Pascal's Wager is not self-respect, dignity, and wasted time so much as it is the problem of trying to make yourself believe in God in the first place. It would be like trying to make yourself believe that Santa Claus is a real magical person who actually does live up at the North Pole and delivers toys to children around the world once a year. You know there's so much wrong with the myth and the fact that it was a made-up fairy tale that you just can't make yourself believe it, and any motions you go through will just be pretending. I'd much rather not lie to myself.

Besides, if God really wants me to worship him, all he's got to do is show me that he exists and is worthy of worship.

[5thHorseman]

'Muslims who pray 5-a-day have my sympathies'

Not mine.

Right. They could wake the fuck up and stop. WTF kind of "god" would want to hear such relentless chanting 5 times a day from a billion assholes anyway?

I'd kill them just to get some peace and quiet.

One with Alzheimers, Min.

[Jackalope]

The problem with Pascal's Wager is not self-respect, dignity, and wasted time so much as it is the problem of trying to make yourself believe in God in the first place.

Yes, that's one of the conventional arguments I was trying to avoid rehashing.

I don't believe one can earnestly make oneself believe in god absent something that qualifies in one's mind as evidence, and if an omniscient god existed, he would surely know if you were earnest or not.

[Cosmic Ape]

You've got your entire life to lose and everything you do affects others.