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Stuck
#1
Stuck
I don't exactly know what or how I want to say it, so I'll just let it out and hope for the best.

I still haven't told any of my friends about my change in beliefs. If you knew me in real life then you would gather that I'm most likely a theist because of the activities that I partake in during the week (church, youth group, guitarist for the worship team, guitarist for my own Christian-based band and bible study group). The only place where I feel comfortable 'acting' like my true self is here, online.

The problem I have started encountering with this is that because I haven't physically said a word out loud in real life that actually matches up with how I truly feel, it's like my identity has been split into two. I'm a non-theist in my head but a theist through my actions.

Lately this has been having a really negative impact on my university studies. To make up for the lack of interaction with others as an outright non-theist I have been feeding myself with more and more information about what I think is the true nature of 'human existence' or basically secular information on religion (from a historical p.o.v.). This is the monologue that I am living where my true identity resides but it's taking away from what I should be focusing on which is my university studies instead of studying something not related to my degree at all.

The solution is to approach a friend and honestly tell them what I'm going through. The problem is that my circle of friends - which consists of theists and non-theists alike - is connected in such a way that it doesn't matter who I tell, the truth has the potential to reach key people that will turn my life into hell.

So I guess the advice I need is how to be able to talk about my situation honestly with someone but not give away everything. Do you think this is even possible?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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#2
RE: Stuck
You seem to be stuck between two worlds, and if I were you, I'd make the change one way or the other before if completely fucks you up. That's not to say that making the change will be easy or won't fuck you up as well. Ultimately, it's your decision. But ask yourself this, are you more comfortable living a lie or would it be better to be honest with yourself and your family and friends?
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens

"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".

- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "

- Dr. Donald Prothero
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#3
RE: Stuck
Perhaps you need to ask yourself how valuable to you are people who would throw you under a bus because you no longer profess belief in their fairy tales?

If their invisible friend is more important to them than you are maybe you are better off without them?
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#4
RE: Stuck
(April 17, 2012 at 12:29 am)orogenicman Wrote: You seem to be stuck between two worlds, and if I were you, I'd make the change one way or the other before if completely fucks you up. That's not to say that making the change will be easy or won't fuck you up as well. Ultimately, it's your decision. But ask yourself this, are you more comfortable living a lie or would it be better to be honest with yourself and your family and friends?

Yeah I've been meaning to just let it all out because I'm not comfortable at the moment. I just can't really predict what the consequences of that will be and this is what's stopping me from letting it all out.
(April 17, 2012 at 12:54 am)Minimalist Wrote: Perhaps you need to ask yourself how valuable to you are people who would throw you under a bus because you no longer profess belief in their fairy tales?

If their invisible friend is more important to them than you are maybe you are better off without them?

It's not that they will start hating me after that. I know that they're better than that. The problem is that as it is, for obvious reasons my theist friends feel it is morally right to preach about the Word and also get together and discuss it. So as it is, I'm already getting pummeled by their beliefs 2 to 3 times a week. If I start saying that I don't believe anymore then I will get 24/7 pummeling of the Word and countless reasons why it is the truth and so on.

What I fear the most about this happening is that I will most likely damage their faith more than what they will influence me. I already saw this happen when I decided to test a theist friend by letting out a miniscule amount of what I think is truth. We were discussing something to do with the Gospels and I half intentionally blurted out that church tradition gave the nameless authors labels. He looked at me funny and said 'read the top of every page. it tells us who wrote it!'. Immediately I had to put the brakes because already I could tell that conversation wasn't going to end well. They're all so fragile and any conversation about what I think will most likely destroy them.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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#5
RE: Stuck
Quote:Yeah I've been meaning to just let it all out because I'm not comfortable at the moment. I just can't really predict what the consequences of that will be and this is what's stopping me from letting it all out.

No one is saying that it will be easy. Life is rarely simple, and never easy. Most likely, it will be very hard at first. But if your family and friends truly care about you, they will accept you for who you are not for what you believe. If not, then they probably weren't worth the trouble to begin with.
Quote:What I fear the most about this happening is that I will most likely damage their faith more than what they will influence me. I already saw this happen when I decided to test a theist friend by letting out a miniscule amount of what I think is truth. We were discussing something to do with the Gospels and I half intentionally blurted out that church tradition gave the nameless authors labels. He looked at me funny and said 'read the top of every page. it tells us who wrote it!'. Immediately I had to put the brakes because already I could tell that conversation wasn't going to end well. They're all so fragile and any conversation about what I think will most likely destroy them.

If they truly believe, then nothing you can say will change that. If they don't, then it could influence their beliefs in unpredictable ways. But I have to ask you this: If you no longer believe, and coming out destroys their faith, why is that a bad thing for them but not for you? Ridding oneself of one's delusions is only a bad thing if one does not have the motional stability to deal with it. Bt my own experience tells me that losing faith does not happen overnight. It tok me years to confront the fact that I don't believe. It took even longer to get the nerve to tell others that I don't believe. It was only when I realized that I never truly believed and was only going through the motions to satisfy the wishes and desires of others did I finally break the cycle. And make no mistake, they are trying to control what you believe. I don't believe they have a right to do that. It is your inailienable right to hold to your own beliefs. After all, as Thomas Paine once said:

"It is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving, it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe."
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens

"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".

- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "

- Dr. Donald Prothero
Reply
#6
RE: Stuck
Because you are in university, I assume you're in your late-teens early twenties. I sympathize with your situation. When I was your age I faced the same issue.

The first step for me was to fully accept what I believed and be comfortable with it. Most believers don't agnoize over the bible to confirm their belief (unless they're looking for loopholes) You don't have to keep studying atheism to prove to yourself that you're an atheist. You just are. Move on. That allows you put the issue on the back burner for a while so you can concentrate on your studies.

Next, people expect college age people to 'question their faith'. You may already have decided, but you need not present to others your conviction...more your general lack of interest. Non-commital phrases like, "I just don't see the point," or "It does make sense to me anymore..." will get you far. Most people don't want to press the issue and will respect that. As for fundies if they respect you they'll just leave you alone and pray for you in silence.

As for the Christian band...it's music. Mahler was a Jew and his 4th sings the praises of Christian resurrection. There's not much difference between 'Haleluya' and 'Yeah Baby Baby Baby'. Both are just vocal filler anyway. Besides who really listens to lyrics anyway. People just want to listen to something with a good beat and some bitchen' riffs. Rock on.



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#7
RE: Stuck
Don't forget that Kichi and I live in Perth.

If you want to talk it out over a beer or two(or three,or four,or....)

Let us know.
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If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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#8
RE: Stuck
orogenicman Wrote:If you no longer believe, and coming out destroys their faith, why is that a bad thing for them but not for you?
It's not that bad for me at all because I come from a country called Chile in South America which is mostly Catholic. As a result I have been raised by Catholic parents that did their duty of taking me to religion classes and doing all the rituals up until confirmation. Since then they haven't talked about God in I don't know how many years. They even stopped going to church 3 years ago because their favourite church father moved somewhere else. So pretty much they don't see religion as anything big.

My friends on the other hand come from families with born again parents. They are the 3rd or 4th generation of born again Christians. The Bible is the absolute truth that they live by and I don't want to be responsible for wrecking the families by potentially deconverting some, if ever.

Quote:Bt my own experience tells me that losing faith does not happen overnight. It tok me years to confront the fact that I don't believe.
Yeah I reckon they wouldn't convert overnight, if ever, because most of them have grown up surrounded by born again people. It's the only thing they know.

ChadWooters Wrote:You don't have to keep studying atheism to prove to yourself that you're an atheist. You just are. Move on.
To move on I need to be able to live and act the way that I believe is right. This is what isn't happening because of the pressure exerted by my circle of friends.

Quote:Next, people expect college age people to 'question their faith'. You may already have decided, but you need not present to others your conviction...more your general lack of interest. Non-commital phrases like, "I just don't see the point," or "It does make sense to me anymore..." will get you far.
Yeah, that's good advice! Thanks.

Zen Badger Wrote:Don't forget that Kichi and I live in Perth.

If you want to talk it out over a beer or two(or three,or four,or....)

Let us know.
I appreciate that.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
Reply
#9
RE: Stuck
(April 17, 2012 at 12:58 am)FallentoReason Wrote: It's not that they will start hating me after that. I know that they're better than that. The problem is that as it is, for obvious reasons my theist friends feel it is morally right to preach about the Word and also get together and discuss it. So as it is, I'm already getting pummeled by their beliefs 2 to 3 times a week. If I start saying that I don't believe anymore then I will get 24/7 pummeling of the Word and countless reasons why it is the truth and so on.

I came out to my father's side of the family. I won't be doing the same with my mother's side. They still love me, and work extra hard on converting me because of it. I have the advantage of living in a different state from every other member of my family, it would be a lot more annoying year-round.

(April 17, 2012 at 12:58 am)FallentoReason Wrote: What I fear the most about this happening is that I will most likely damage their faith more than what they will influence me. I already saw this happen when I decided to test a theist friend by letting out a miniscule amount of what I think is truth. We were discussing something to do with the Gospels and I half intentionally blurted out that church tradition gave the nameless authors labels. He looked at me funny and said 'read the top of every page. it tells us who wrote it!'. Immediately I had to put the brakes because already I could tell that conversation wasn't going to end well. They're all so fragile and any conversation about what I think will most likely destroy them.

Their faith is probably more bullet-proof than you think. I'd avoid arguing over religion with them though. The internetz are out there if they really want to learn something, there's no need for you to waste time defending yourself and catching the blame if someone else decides you're right. Direct them here if they really want to argue.

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#10
RE: Stuck
Quote:I still haven't told any of my friends about my change in beliefs.
Have you converted to another religion? If not, I think it's best not to talk to others about this, but if you really want to *inform* them about this sudden turn of events in your life....
Quote: If you knew me in real life then you would gather that I'm most likely a theist because of the activities that I partake in during the week (church, youth group, guitarist for the worship team, guitarist for my own Christian-based band and bible study group).
If you don't enjoy these activities, you're free to quit them my friend.
Quote:The only place where I feel comfortable 'acting' like my true self is here, online.
Act as you are, or be as you act.
Quote:The problem I have started encountering with this is that because I haven't physically said a word out loud in real life that actually matches up with how I truly feel, it's like my identity has been split into two. I'm a non-theist in my head but a theist through my actions.
Well, there are times in which people feel like that. I sometimes feel like that when I have to do certain things. But I do them regardless for the sole advancement of my own agenda.
Religious things might be a different thing though, they are a matter of conscience.
Quote:Lately this has been having a really negative impact on my university studies. To make up for the lack of interaction with others as an outright non-theist I have been feeding myself with more and more information about what I think is the true nature of 'human existence' or basically secular information on religion (from a historical p.o.v.). This is the monologue that I am living where my true identity resides but it's taking away from what I should be focusing on which is my university studies instead of studying something not related to my degree at all.
That is an entirely different thing. I also take part in extracurricular activities, however, my first and foremost goal is to finish school. I must pay attention towards my studies before everything else, however it's really the boredom that catches me offguard before everything else.

Quote:The solution is to approach a friend and honestly tell them what I'm going through. The problem is that my circle of friends - which consists of theists and non-theists alike - is connected in such a way that it doesn't matter who I tell, the truth has the potential to reach key people that will turn my life into hell.
Key people? Hell? Where do you live, friend? The Vatican?
Quote:So I guess the advice I need is how to be able to talk about my situation honestly with someone but not give away everything. Do you think this is even possible?
I don't know why you feel the need to talk about a personal turn of events with someone else. How is this going to make you feel better? Do you want someone to testify to your old beliefs, or new ones?
Who are they going to complain about this anyways, to turn your life into hell?
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