Logical fallacies in the Bible?

[The Grand Nudger]

Unless that assumption leads you to accepting fallacious arguments as to how the bible came to be the way it came to be....

[Minimalist]

Neat info Min. I'm not sure what this has to do with fallacies in the Bible though. If I was trying to show that there are fallacies in the bible to a Christian, I don't see how discussing the real developmental history of the bible helps my case because the believer will almost never accept it. For the sake of argument (trying to show fallacies in the bible), it's best to assume the bible came the basic way the Christian thinks the bible came to be.

You don't need "logical" fallacies if the facts are bullshit to begin with. Something, I fear, which xtians can simply not understand.

Your last sentence is yet another example of a "factual fallacy" or, at best, a very flawed premise.

http://www.leveltruth.com/articles/pamph...tament.pdf

In Misquoting Jesus, Ehrman presents persuasive evidence that the story
of the woman taken in adultery (John 7:53-8:12) and the last twelve verses
of Mark were not in the original gospels, but added by later scribes.[19]
Furthermore, these examples “represent just two out of thousands of
places in which the manuscripts of the New Testament came to be changed
by scribes.”[20]
In fact, entire books of the Bible were forged.[21] This doesn’t mean their
content is necessarily wrong, but it certainly doesn’t mean it’s right. So
which books were forged? Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 and
2 Timothy, Titus, 1 and 2 Peter, and Jude—a whopping nine of the twentyseven
New Testament books and epistles—are to one degree or another
suspect.

And, of course to these forgeries must be added the 4 gospels themselves which are anonymous at best and pseudoepigraphical at worst.

[Jackalope]

But.... But.... It's infallible, isn't it?

[Drich]

Why look for excuses for reason not to believe? I do not use excuses for the reasons I do not worship other gods. why not simply stand on your convictions? why not simply say I am not going to believe simply because i decided not to. Because in the end that all it really amounts to anyway..

[cratehorus]

[John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
- Matthew 11:14

And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias? And he saith, I am not.
- John 1:21



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Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
- Mark 1:14

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet cast into prison.
- John 3:22-24



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And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
- Mark 25:3-4

And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I crucify your king?
- John 19:14-15



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They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
- Matthew 27:34

And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
- Mark 15:23
[Jesus was the thirsty chap in both verses.]



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And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
- Acts 9:7

And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
- Acts 22:9



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Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman.
- Galatians 4:22

By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only begotten son.
- Hebrews 11:17



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Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death.
- II Samuel 6:23

The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
- II Samuel 21:8



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And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
- II Samuel 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
- I Chronicles 21:1



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All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
- Matthew 28:18

And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
- Mark 6:5



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There shall no evil happen to the just.
- Proverbs 12:21

Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
- Hebrews 12:6



http://www.evilbible.com/

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

[The Grand Nudger]

Why look for excuses for reason not to believe? I do not use excuses for the reasons I do not worship other gods. why not simply stand on your convictions? why not simply say I am not going to believe simply because i decided not to. Because in the end that all it really amounts to anyway..

Bullshit, as usual. Lets see if you have it in you to follow through on that. Decide to stop believing. When you've accomplished that you go ahead and tell me what it "really amounts to". Your every post on this forum has amounted to reasons and excuses that you claim somehow support your faith. Stand on your own godamned convictions, it's just a choice you made, no reason required.

-That's all it really amounts to anyway-

[Drich]

[John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
- Matthew 11:14

And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias? And he saith, I am not.
- John 1:21

MT 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.

John was not received as Elijah by those who questioned him.

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Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
- Mark 1:14

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet cast into prison.
- John 3:22-24

John3:22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. 24 For John had not yet been thrown into prison.

Mark1:John Baptizes Jesus

9 It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately, coming up from[d] the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. 11 Then a voice came from heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Satan Tempts Jesus

12 Immediately the Spirit drove Him into the wilderness. 13 And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.

Jesus Begins His Galilean Ministry

14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom[e] of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

You seem to left out a recorded 40 day time period in your account of these two events. Not to mention if Christ was on a fast for 40 days it would have taken a few weeks to go from verse 13 to 14. but lets just look at the 40 days Jesus spent in the wilderness. Yu do not think it possiable for John to have been arrested in that time frame?

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And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
- Mark 25:3-4

Sorry Mark only goes to chapter 16




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They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
- Matthew 27:34

And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
- Mark 15:23
[Jesus was the thirsty chap in both verses.]
One does not exclude the other. Gall was a bitter drug that would numb Jesus and make him loopy which was often chased with Myrrh to sweeten the bitter taste. (A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down) Or in this case the closest thing they had to it.


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And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
- Acts 9:7

And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
- Acts 22:9

Keep reading. They heard a voice in 9:7, but nothing in Chapter 9 says it was the one who spoke directly with Saul, nor does it say what they heard.


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Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman.
- Galatians 4:22

By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only begotten son.
- Hebrews 11:17

The Hebrew word 'begotten' denotes legitmacy, as in born in marriage which would make Isaac his only legitmate/begotten son.



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Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death.
- II Samuel 6:23

The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
- II Samuel 21:8


a.2 Samuel 21:8 Or Merab (compare 1 Samuel 18:19 and 25:44; 2 Samuel 3:14 and 6:23)
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And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
- II Samuel 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
- I Chronicles 21:1
And Satan serves who? Do you think Satan could provoke anyone without permission first? If so read the book of Job before you answer.


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All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
- Matthew 28:18

And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
- Mark 6:5
Mat 28 was after the resurrection where Christ was Given ultimate authority. Mark 6 (before the death on the Cross) Christ was working under self observed restrictions (To comply with prophesy.)




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There shall no evil happen to the just.
- Proverbs 12:21

Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
- Hebrews 12:6

A proverb by defination is a saying. like a penny saved is a penny earned.. It's not a command.

http://www.evilbible.com

Maybe you should look to do your own research rather than seek out others work to tell you how to think.

[Minimalist]

But.... But.... It's infallible, isn't it?

To be fair only the real flat-out crazies maintain that. Even catholics are not that fucking stupid.

[Drich]

Why look for excuses for reason not to believe? I do not use excuses for the reasons I do not worship other gods. why not simply stand on your convictions? why not simply say I am not going to believe simply because i decided not to. Because in the end that all it really amounts to anyway..

Bullshit, as usual. Lets see if you have it in you to follow through on that. Decide to stop believing. When you've accomplished that you go ahead and tell me what it "really amounts to". Your every post on this forum has amounted to reasons and excuses that you claim somehow support your faith. Stand on your own godamned convictions, it's just a choice you made, no reason required.

-That's all it really amounts to anyway-

The choice to believe or to disbelieve came long before my ability to defend said belief. Just like when I shoot down all of the fallacious reasons you all have for disbelief in one aspect of the bible or another, you still have the belief even when your 'legit' reason was smashed against the rock, and you are left with nothing to defend. That is the reason for the name calling and harsh words. Because in the end I am challenging your belief beyond you ability to defend it. So my suggestion is just drop the pretence, and just admit that reason and logic is just a thinly veiled excuse to believe what you want. Stop pretending this is about anything other than what it is. Good old fashion Anger, Hate and resentment. Toward your family, toward the church you grew up in, toward a God who'd let it all happen the way it did.

[cratehorus]

Maybe you should look to do your own research rather than seek out others work to tell you how to think.

Did a christian just tell ME not to let others tell me how to think, that made my day!

here some more contradictions for you to "refute"

Moral Precepts

24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7
27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13
28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15
29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1
34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1
37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6
38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8
39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14
40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2
41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15
43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14
45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8
46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34
47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32
49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
51. A man may marry his brother's widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother's widow
Lev 20:21
52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39