I don't hate God

[Gambit]

Actually, let's you and I start again. I'll tell you a little bit about me, and then you can take it from there.

First of all, I would like to apologize for my attitude. This is an Atheist forum and I have no right to come here and attack Cinjin or your opinions. I have a long story but here is the highlight reel:

When I was a child I was very religious; in fact, at one time I wanted to be a priest when I grew up. The reason that I was so religious was due to a culmination of events. I was diagnosed with Arthritis when I was three; my father was a protestant in a republican area of Belfast; and my disabled sister, who I related to because of my own disability, died when I was six. I was bullied a lot and was a weird child. Weird in the sense that I always stood up for people who were outcasts or considered ugly in some sense. As I got older, I started questioning the existence of God. It came to a head when I was around 14/15, when I finally decided that the whole concept of God was man's way of reconciling our mortality etc.

Since then I have undergone a number of transitions in what I do and do not belief. For the most part I considered myself agnostic; reason being, I just couldn't discount the possibility of God, and didn't feel I was qualified to know. Then, as I began coming into contact with more educated theists, I started asking questions again. I still wasn't happy with the answers, so I became almost a mirror reflection of your good self - I raged against theists; called them stupid; laughed at them etc etc. Then a friend suggested that many of the questions I asked would suggest I was a deist. I had never actually heard of the term, at that time. I looked into it and it was something that felt right to me.

Fast forward to present day. I met some good people, during those days where I came head to head with theists. We still debate religion, belief and all things relating to God. I found that although I do not believe in their doctrine, there was no reason that we couldn't find common ground. Now, it should be noted that these people are not weekend Christians, they are borderline fundies. They do try to convert me, and make no secret of their efforts. However, they do not shy away when I destroy an argument that they present. In fact, they often state that they do not know the answer.

When I joined this forum, I did so under the flag of deism. I had a conversation with a member called Napoleon, who basically deconstructed my belief system in a way that made sense. So, I declared that I was now an atheist. The consequence of which was my pregnant girlfriend telling me that I would never see our child. Anyway, that is not important; we've reconciled since then. Now, to be honest, I am back to a place where I don't know what to believe. I'm trying to be the type of person I was as a child, though. I'm trying to let go of anger and treat people how I would like to be treated. This all sounds flowery and nice, I know. However, I have found that I can reach people and change how they think by showing respect, even where it seems it is not due. With those who are truly unable to open their mind to what I have to say, I simply walk away. Drich was right about the use of the word 'agape'. My blog post was simply pointing out how millions of people follow a religion, yet they don't even know how to read the context in their own holy books. If you look at the first posts in my blog you will see they are all challenging religious perceptions and claims. Then my friend posts a counter argument to one of my posts. There is no smoking gun here; I hope you can see that now.

God bless... shit, I mean Darwin!

[Brian37]

First of all, I would like to apologize for my attitude. This is an Atheist forum and I have no right to come here and attack Cinjin or your opinions. I have a long story but here is the highlight reel:

No you do not have that right, but I also don't have any rights here either. But here is where I hope you are not wrongfully confuse issues. This is a privately owned board and only the mods and the owner get to determine the rules. My experience, and I don't speak for all atheists or all atheist websites, but what goes on on any of them is a comfort level issue.

You do have and should have a right protected by the government to blaspheme or ridicule or offend others, even me.

Humans SHOULD always have the right to express their opinion, but only in the sense that the government cannot arrest them for mere dissent. None of us are entitled to the venues that others own, if we want a venue, we go where we are accepted, or we create our own venue. It is only oppression when there are no options and when their is a monopoly.

I myself have been here a few short weeks. I have pissed off quite a few people. But what I have no right to do is to demand that the rules coddle me when I do not own the website.

Look at it as being in someone else's house. If they don't want you to smoke, then don't smoke. But if you smoke your rights are not being oppressed because you can smoke in your own car, or your own house, and the government cannot have you arrested for the mere act of dissent or criticism or offending them.

[Gambit]

First of all, I would like to apologize for my attitude. This is an Atheist forum and I have no right to come here and attack Cinjin or your opinions. I have a long story but here is the highlight reel:

No you do not have that right, but I also don't have any rights here either. But here is where I hope you are not wrongfully confuse issues. This is a privately owned board and only the mods and the owner get to determine the rules. My experience, and I don't speak for all atheists or all atheist websites, but what goes on on any of them is a comfort level issue.

You do have and should have a right protected by the government to blaspheme or ridicule or offend others, even me.

Humans SHOULD always have the right to express their opinion, but only in the sense that the government cannot arrest them for mere dissent. None of us are entitled to the venues that others own, if we want a venue, we go where we are accepted, or we create our own venue. It is only oppression when there are no options and when their is a monopoly.

I myself have been here a few short weeks. I have pissed off quite a few people. But what I have no right to do is to demand that the rules coddle me when I do not own the website.

Look at it as being in someone else's house. If they don't want you to smoke, then don't smoke. But if you smoke your rights are not being oppressed because you can smoke in your own car, or your own house, and the government cannot have you arrested for the mere act of dissent or criticism or offending them.

I get you, Brian. I make my apologies and offer explanations only in keeping with being the person that I wish to be. This is only my own opinion, but I feel that we often become that which we railed against so passionately, when we ridicule and demean the beliefs of others. It's almost like you can substitute certain words from theists/atheists and the message doesn't change. I tend to observe more than interact, and this is how things come across to me. I know I'm not going to solve all the problems of the world, but I'll be damned if I don't keep trying, regardless.

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

When I joined this forum, I did so under the flag of deism. I had a conversation with a member called Napoleon, who basically deconstructed my belief system in a way that made sense. So, I declared that I was now an atheist. The consequence of which was my pregnant girlfriend telling me that I would never see our child.

You might want to ask yourself why it seems so important to declare your self...anything.

Anyway, that is not important; we've reconciled since then. Now, to be honest, I am back to a place where I don't know what to believe. I'm trying to be the type of person I was as a child, though. I'm trying to let go of anger and treat people how I would like to be treated.

But that is perfectly reasonable and honorable. I applaud it. But none of that has anything to do with any sort of belief, except perhaps a belief that you are capable of being the person you would like to be.

This all sounds flowery and nice, I know. However, I have found that I can reach people and change how they think by showing respect, even where it seems it is not due.

I am not understanding this perceived need to "reach people" and change how they think, especially when you yourself admit that you "don't know what to believe" (which again, I ask, is it so important to believe anything at all?).

With those who are truly unable to open their mind to what I have to say, I simply walk away.

You might get a lot of clarity out of Qualia Soup's "closed-mindedness" video on youtube.

Drich was right about the use of the word 'agape'.

I beg to differ: Drich is full of shit, making up his interpretations as he goes along. He spammed the same nonsense over at AFC and had his head handed him here: http://www.atheistforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=34070


What he is doing is imposing much later greek concepts on teachings that were originally given in Aramaic and Hebrew. He is no scholar -- IIRC, he admitted here somewhere that he graduated from high school with a fourth-grade reading level -- and it is folly for him to be quibbling over the definitions and origins of words can't even/won't bother to learn to spell.

My blog post was simply pointing out how millions of people follow a religion, yet they don't even know how to read the context in their own holy books.

And that is TRUE, and I agree. But Drich is still full of shit, and you can see he is getting mauled all over this forum because of his intellectual dishonesty and poor "scholarship".

[Gambit]

I've got my drink on, so please forgive me if I do not go quote by quote (It took me about six hours to do it earlier, and I was sober then). I've seen Qualia soup's video on closed mindedness quite a few times - in fact, it is one of the most eye-opening videos I have seen. If I could put my finger on why I feel a need to understand others, I'd say it comes from a need to be understood. I'm an outcast, freak, cripple and weirdo; by the accounts of others. I've always said I'm a forever student; which is probably why I change my position on things so often. I don't know if I have mentioned it on this forum, but I have this weird learning disorder. It's not something that holds me back, per se. My brain refuses to understand something until I have all the pieces. however, once they are all in place the concept clicks all at once. I also have; as Shell B will attest to, a seriously short fuse and bad temper. The combination of these things are, I hope, the answers to your questions.

[Shell B]

His fuse isn't the only thing that is "short" about him. He's Irish.

[Gambit]

His fuse isn't the only thing that is "short" about him. He's Irish.

Excuse me. I am 6 foot tall and wear size 11(uk)/12(US). Have you ever heard the sayings "Big hands, big penis" and "Men who drive flash cars are compensating for little penises"? Well my hands are massive and I can't even drive. Damn Americans. You wouldn't even have a country if it weren't for the Oirish.

[Brian37]

No you do not have that right, but I also don't have any rights here either. But here is where I hope you are not wrongfully confuse issues. This is a privately owned board and only the mods and the owner get to determine the rules. My experience, and I don't speak for all atheists or all atheist websites, but what goes on on any of them is a comfort level issue.

You do have and should have a right protected by the government to blaspheme or ridicule or offend others, even me.

Humans SHOULD always have the right to express their opinion, but only in the sense that the government cannot arrest them for mere dissent. None of us are entitled to the venues that others own, if we want a venue, we go where we are accepted, or we create our own venue. It is only oppression when there are no options and when their is a monopoly.

I myself have been here a few short weeks. I have pissed off quite a few people. But what I have no right to do is to demand that the rules coddle me when I do not own the website.

Look at it as being in someone else's house. If they don't want you to smoke, then don't smoke. But if you smoke your rights are not being oppressed because you can smoke in your own car, or your own house, and the government cannot have you arrested for the mere act of dissent or criticism or offending them.

I get you, Brian. I make my apologies and offer explanations only in keeping with being the person that I wish to be. This is only my own opinion, but I feel that we often become that which we railed against so passionately, when we ridicule and demean the beliefs of others. It's almost like you can substitute certain words from theists/atheists and the message doesn't change. I tend to observe more than interact, and this is how things come across to me. I know I'm not going to solve all the problems of the world, but I'll be damned if I don't keep trying, regardless.

I warn against always placating the emotions and insecurities of others. Unless you have been in a captive situation such as school and or workplace, or even worse, live under a nation that oppresses you for dissent, merely being offensive, or having passion for an issue, by itself is not a crime.

There is nothing wrong with being nice, but there is also nothing wrong with bitching either. There is not one human on this planet who hasn't bitched about something, even if only in their mind. You can control your physical actions in reacting to others, as all should. But don't play thought police, even with yourself. You can ultimately only be yourself.

Context is what matters, not avoiding offending people all the time at all costs. It should depend on the situation as a case by case basis. Otherwise if we become a society of "taboos" to avoid conflict or hurt feelings, the problem always becomes "who gets to decide"?

[Shell B]

It has taken me years to train him to apologize when he's being a cunt. Don't you dare undo all of my hard work!

[Gambit]

I get you, Brian. I make my apologies and offer explanations only in keeping with being the person that I wish to be. This is only my own opinion, but I feel that we often become that which we railed against so passionately, when we ridicule and demean the beliefs of others. It's almost like you can substitute certain words from theists/atheists and the message doesn't change. I tend to observe more than interact, and this is how things come across to me. I know I'm not going to solve all the problems of the world, but I'll be damned if I don't keep trying, regardless.

I warn against always placating the emotions and insecurities of others. Unless you have been in a captive situation such as school and or workplace, or even worse, live under a nation that oppresses you for dissent, merely being offensive, or having passion for an issue, by itself is not a crime.

There is nothing wrong with being nice, but there is also nothing wrong with bitching either. There is not one human on this planet who hasn't bitched about something, even if only in their mind. You can control your physical actions in reacting to others, as all should. But don't play thought police, even with yourself. You can ultimately only be yourself.

Context is what matters, not avoiding offending people all the time at all costs. It should depend on the situation as a case by case basis. Otherwise if we become a society of "taboos" to avoid conflict or hurt feelings, the problem always becomes "who gets to decide"?

I can't really argue with that, in most cases. However, I have 18 years in customer service experience and I know that people's defenses are very easily broken down, with the right approach. Also, I come from Northern Ireland so I know all about being in oppressive situations. When you have to talk a gunman out of shooting you, when he has been brainwashed into believing that you represent everything that he hates, you learn as you go or become another statistic. In fairness, though, it is my idealistic view of the world which usually lands me looking down the barrel of a gun, so point taken.