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Need a proof (real analysis)
July 31, 2012 at 5:35 pm
Can anyone prove the following:
Let g be a real number such that 0 <= g <= 1. Let m,n be integers.
Conjecture 1: a^g + b^g - 1 >= (a+b-1)^g
Conjecture 2: if a >= b, then b^g - (b-1)^g >= a^g - (a-1)^g
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
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RE: Need a proof (real analysis)
July 31, 2012 at 6:18 pm
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2012 at 6:23 pm by Categories+Sheaves.)
You can do the first conjecture in one line by multiplying both sides by (1/3) g, yielding
(a/3) g + (b/3) g +(1/3) g >= (a/3 + b/3 + 1/3) g
Which is true by the concavity of f(x) = x g for g in [0,1]
#2 is simple if you interpret each side as an integral of x g's derivative (which is monotonically decreasing, etc.).
Anyway, that's the easy route. Since you've specified that this is a simple real analysis question, were you looking for a purely algebraic argument? (because it feels like there should be one...)
afterthought: you meant " let a,b be integers", right?
So these philosophers were all like, "That Kant apply universally!" And then these mathematicians were all like, "Oh yes it Kan!"
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RE: Need a proof (real analysis)
July 31, 2012 at 6:26 pm
(July 31, 2012 at 6:18 pm)Categories+Sheaves Wrote: You can do the first conjecture in one line by multiplying both sides by (1/3)g, yielding
(a/3)g + (b/3)g +(1/3)g >= (a/3 + b/3 + 1/3)g
Which is true by the concavity of f(x) = xg for g in [0,1]
You've improperly switched some negatives to positives there, I think.
Quote:#2 is simple if you interpret each side as an integral of xg's derivative (which is monotonically decreasing, etc.).
Anyway, that's the easy route. Since you've specified that this is a simple real analysis question, were you looking for a purely algebraic argument? (because it feels like there should be one...)
Any proof will do, it's a useful lemma for my girlfriend's research.
Quote:afterthought: you meant "let a,b be integers", right?
Yeah, I messed with the formatting and forgot to change my variable names.
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RE: Need a proof (real analysis)
July 31, 2012 at 6:47 pm
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2012 at 6:50 pm by Categories+Sheaves.)
(July 31, 2012 at 6:26 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: [quote='Categories+Sheaves' pid='317718' dateline='1343773102']
You can do the first conjecture in one line by multiplying both sides by (1/3)g, yielding
(a/3)g + (b/3)g +(1/3)g >= (a/3 + b/3 + 1/3)g
You've improperly switched some negatives to positives there, I think. Ah. Indeed I did.
So that gives us (a-1) g + (b) g >= (a + b - 1) g as long as a > 1 (negatives makes this harder :/ ).
By conjecture #2...
1-0 >= a g - (a-1) g and so (a-1) g >= a g - 1
So just using concavity isn't enough... (July 31, 2012 at 6:26 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: Any proof will do, it's a useful lemma for my girlfriend's research. Because there's nothing more interesting than another person's question: what's the problem/literature you're looking at?
So these philosophers were all like, "That Kant apply universally!" And then these mathematicians were all like, "Oh yes it Kan!"
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RE: Need a proof (real analysis)
July 31, 2012 at 6:54 pm
(July 31, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Categories+Sheaves Wrote: (July 31, 2012 at 6:26 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: [quote='Categories+Sheaves' pid='317718' dateline='1343773102']
You can do the first conjecture in one line by multiplying both sides by (1/3)g, yielding
(a/3)g + (b/3)g +(1/3)g >= (a/3 + b/3 + 1/3)g
You've improperly switched some negatives to positives there, I think. Ah. Indeed I did.
So that gives us (a-1)g + (b)g >= (a + b - 1)g as long as a > 1 (negatives makes this harder :/ ).
By conjecture #2...
1-0 >= ag - (a-1)g and so (a-1)g >= ag - 1
So just using concavity isn't enough... (July 31, 2012 at 6:26 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: Any proof will do, it's a useful lemma for my girlfriend's research. Because there's nothing more interesting than another person's question: what's the problem/literature you're looking at?
It's to prove a lower bound for a function on a network that gives the 'energy' of the network.
Conjecture 2 can be used to prove conjecture 1 through induction.
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RE: Need a proof (real analysis)
July 31, 2012 at 7:24 pm
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2012 at 8:12 pm by Categories+Sheaves.)
CliveStaples Wrote:Conjecture 2 can be used to prove conjecture 1 through induction. Aww. Well, I just threw together an analytic proof using a,b>=1
WOLOG spz. b>=a>=1
Noting that Int(g x1-g on [0,1]) = 1 <--everyday integration
(a+b-1) g = (b) g + Int(g x1-g on [b,b+a-1])
(a) g = Int(g x1-g on [0,a]) = 1 + Int(g x1-g on [1,a])
And then Int(g x1-g on [1,a]) >= Int(g x1-g on [b,b+a-1]) for the usual reason, and the result follows. CliveStaples Wrote:It's to prove a lower bound for a function on a network that gives the 'energy' of the network. Does the function have a name?
-----edited because CliveStaples has a sharper eye than I do-----
Also: shorter proof.
(a+b-1) g = (b) g + Int(g x1-g on [b,b+a-1]) =< (b) g + Int(g x1-g on [1,a]) = (b) g + (a) g -1
With the middle inequality coming form concavity.
So these philosophers were all like, "That Kant apply universally!" And then these mathematicians were all like, "Oh yes it Kan!"
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RE: Need a proof (real analysis)
July 31, 2012 at 7:30 pm
Quote:Noting that Int(xg on [0,1]) = 1
Int(x^g) on [0,1] = 1/(g+1)
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RE: Need a proof (real analysis)
July 31, 2012 at 7:37 pm
(July 31, 2012 at 7:30 pm)CliveStaples Wrote: Quote:Noting that Int(xg on [0,1]) = 1
Int(x^g) on [0,1] = 1/(g+1) Pardon my spelling, meant the derivative
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RE: Need a proof (real analysis)
August 2, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Hey, thanks for the work! We were stuck trying algebra and couldn't figure it out; using integrals is pretty slick. I haven't actually written many proofs using integrals--except maybe in differential equations.
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
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