Human Value Nonexistent?

[Mystic]

Maybe you give things worth out of belief that they have worth, I don't..I have criteria (depending on the thing I'm considering- and subject to change) that determines whether or not something has any worth.

Everyone has a criteria. They don't simply make up their value with total randomness. It's a struggling type choosing beliefs.

We have moral instincts to praise love. We appreciate it. But what is the foundational basis to the praise? Simply because we praise it, therefore it's praiseworthy? But we praise because we believe it's praiseworthy.

Our moral instinct is praise love. We evolved praising one another and loving one another.

Without belief in worth of humanity, we wouldn't have made it this far and evolved to what we are.

But is instinct beliefs justification?

[Edwardo Piet]

well be when try to define free-will, we will realize it's a delusion and impossible concept. I rather not try for that reason

I guess you also believe in "jagonga groopok" then, despite you don't know what I'm defining it as. You can't even want to believe in "free will" if you don't even know what "free" and "will" even mean. Unless you simply like the sound of it in the same way you might or might not like the sound of "jagonga groopok" even though it is undefined. I doubt that's why you want to believe in it.

[Mystic]

You can't even want to believe in "free will" if you don't even know what "free" and "will" even mean.

Well I have a partial concept. I have partial concept of plane, I don't understand it like an engineer does. I am just afraid right now. Maybe later

[The Grand Nudger]

Everyone has a criteria. They don't simply make up their value with total randomness. It's a struggling type choosing beliefs.

We have moral instincts to praise love. We appreciate it. But what is the foundational basis to the praise? Simply because we praise it, therefore it's praiseworthy? But we praise because we believe it's praiseworthy.

Our moral instinct is praise love. We evolved praising one another and loving one another.

Without belief in worth of humanity, we wouldn't have made it this far and evolved to what we are.

But is instinct beliefs justification?

Oh ffs man, how many times do I have to say this? Is there some other authority or basis that I should defer to when the subject is what I personally value or why I value it? If the value is set by instinct then it is still a value, it is still based upon something. It is still not a delusion.

[genkaus]

This is a problem. I will give an example of what I'm trying to say. We are naturally inclined to believe the natural world exists and is not a dream like matrix like world.

Right now we imagine there can be a material like substance. It maybe very well be that it's possible, it may not be possible. Perhaps only spiritual existence is possible to constitute reality.

But we chose to believe in a material world, because it helps you function better or that our instinct is that there is one. But we don't have a rational reason to believe it's even possible let alone that material world exists. At least most of us don't.

When we assume something is of worth or we measure humans in different degrees, we assume there is some measurement constituting their worth. But how that is even possible, we don't know.

Free-will is assumed in all this. That there is a will that has some sort of control and is praised. But we haven't proved free-will exists.

Do you even understand what you are blabbering about. Reason, rationality and concepts like measurement proceed from the assumption of an objective material world. Belief in a 'spiritual' reality is self-defeating because contradicts the very basis of rationality itself.

[Mystic]

Everyone has a criteria. They don't simply make up their value with total randomness. It's a struggling type choosing beliefs.

We have moral instincts to praise love. We appreciate it. But what is the foundational basis to the praise? Simply because we praise it, therefore it's praiseworthy? But we praise because we believe it's praiseworthy.

Our moral instinct is praise love. We evolved praising one another and loving one another.

Without belief in worth of humanity, we wouldn't have made it this far and evolved to what we are.

But is instinct beliefs justification?

Oh ffs man, how many times do I have to say this? Is there some other authority or basis that I should defer to when the subject is what I personally value or why I value it?

I don't know. I don't know if even an objective authority is possible. I don't even know if value is logically objectively possible or that it must be subjective in nature. But being subjective in nature, it seems it must be a delusion.

[The Grand Nudger]

Who said anything about an objective authority Mystic? I'm trying to explain to you that regardless of whether or not there is such an authority it is not required to make value judgements. Why would subjective things seem to be illusory things?

[genkaus]

You are saying we assign value, therefore it has value. In the sense it has value to us, you are right. In the sense we believe it has value.

Correct so far.

Yes. But we tend to believe, we should value something, because it does have value.

Wrong. That is not a valid reason to value anything.

Take away objective value belief, and there would be not subjective value.

Wrong - since it proceeds from an incorrect premise.

For example, without me believing the Night of Qadr is worth then a thousand months objectively, I cannot make it worth more to me that a thousand months.

Yes, you can, if you can show why it should be.

[Mystic]

Who said anything about an objective authority Mystic? I'm trying to explain to you that regardless of whether or not there is such an authority it is not required to make value judgements.

I know that. We can make value judgements, and they are valuable to us. But is value a delusional concept created by passionate instinct? How do you show it's not.

[genkaus]

Yes, unless it can be shown to be. But we don't know if praise can be shown to be. We assume it can.

Maybe you don't. Don't assume the same for others

Subjectively, yes it has worth to us, but it doesn't mean there is actual basis to it.

You don't think the action actually happened? That action is the actual basis of praise.

Yes, true. But just because we believe something is worthy, doesn't it mean it is.

But if we prove it, the question of belief is irrelevant.

We have a concept of praise, but it maybe paradoxical.

Not to those who understand its roots.

But we give it worth out of believe it has worth. So it seems circular:

"We give it worth, therefore it has worth"
"Why do we give it worth, because it has worth"

Paradoxically confusing.

That is where you are wrong. There would be no point in giving it worth if it already has worth. The basis of that worth we give it is not some imagined preexisting worth, but the nature and the purpose of the object itself.

How?

By determining its suitability for purpose.

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Everyone has a criteria. They don't simply make up their value with total randomness. It's a struggling type choosing beliefs.

Try being rational in the choice.

We have moral instincts to praise love. We appreciate it. But what is the foundational basis to the praise? Simply because we praise it, therefore it's praiseworthy? But we praise because we believe it's praiseworthy.

Our moral instinct is praise love. We evolved praising one another and loving one another.

Without belief in worth of humanity, we wouldn't have made it this far and evolved to what we are.

But is instinct beliefs justification?

This is a good argument for why instincts don't serve as justifications. You are simply defeating strawman arguments here - coming up with invalid justifications and then arguing why they are not justified.