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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 7, 2012 at 5:16 pm
So my position that the Universe was not 'created' for the exclusive use of a select group of dead humans on one unremarkable planet supports your pastor's speculation that it was? Maybe I should try a career in the church. I take back any condescension directed at your pastor friend; from what you describe, he seems at least willing to entertain new ideas. Besides, anyone who enjoys Carl Sagan, even watered down versions of his work, can't be all bad.
I don't remember postulating that pondering the implications of 'sin' - a horrible brand name for a faith system I don't share - causes the reader to engage in the practise themselves. What I meant was that in an environment where 'sin' is nonexistent, there will be no lust, blasphemy, killing etc that is the meat and drink of drama. For instance, one of the most ancient of storytelling forms is the Hero's Journey, popularised by the Star Wars franchise (interesting how many of these discussions come back to Star Wars at some point). Without the desire to explore, literally or spiritually, to seek better horizons and improve oneself, or to learn why one doesn't need to, there can be no journey; hence no story. No conflict, no resolution, no drama. The best that can be pondered is the memory of such things.
As for the the last point in my previous, you've really not seen that before? Not even:
(November 7, 2012 at 7:41 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: Christianity believes that Jesus will return and restore the Earth to what it was like before sin.
God will essentially bring heaven down to Earth and we will live our lives to his glory without sin. It will be like life now, businesses running, sports, entertainment.....but there will be no more sin or suffering and everyone will love the LORD and do all things to his glory. We will be able to worship God in his very near presence and do as He's created us to do for all eternity.
Interestingly there will no longer be marriages, we will be more like you would imagine angels to be....completely content in our singleness.
followed by selected scripture to justify the points? Yes, it's only one opinion by one xtian, which clearly wouldn't apply to all believers, but that's not my problem. I'm in the position of an outsider trying to make sense of sorts of all the loose and contradictory threads.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 7, 2012 at 5:40 pm
(November 7, 2012 at 5:16 pm)Stimbo Wrote: So my position that the Universe was not 'created' for the exclusive use of a select group of dead humans on one unremarkable planet supports your pastor's speculation that it was? Yes, as your position was based on the vastness of the universe relative to number of humans. If his speculation had been about colonization, you might have a point. As it regarded exploration, though, you don't.
Quote:I don't remember postulating that pondering the implications of 'sin' - a horrible brand name for a faith system I don't share - causes the reader to engage in the practise themselves. What I meant was that in an environment where 'sin' is nonexistent, there will be no lust, blasphemy, killing etc that is the meat and drink of drama.
If such things can be pondered without sinning, then they can still be written about. Plus, you continue to ignore art, music, science, and technology.
Quote:For instance, one of the most ancient of storytelling forms is the Hero's Journey, popularised by the Star Wars franchise (interesting how many of these discussions come back to Star Wars at some point). Without the desire to explore, literally or spiritually, to seek better horizons and improve oneself, or to learn why one doesn't need to, there can be no journey; hence no story. No conflict, no resolution, no drama. The best that can be pondered is the memory of such things.
I'm a bigger fan of the three act structure myself. I happen to be going to a Nanowrimo write-in after work. Either way, if one can contemplate conflict without sinning, books can still be written. If not, there's still art...well, you know the drill by now.
Quote:As for the the last point in my previous, you've really not seen that before?
First, "we've seen" as you used it earlier implies that we've seen it proven. Now you're just using it as we've seen it alleged. Yes, some Christians allege that all we do in heaven is sing to God. I've never seen them prove that position Biblically.
Quote:Not even:
(November 7, 2012 at 7:41 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: Christianity believes that Jesus will return and restore the Earth to what it was like before sin.
God will essentially bring heaven down to Earth and we will live our lives to his glory without sin. It will be like life now, businesses running, sports, entertainment.....but there will be no more sin or suffering and everyone will love the LORD and do all things to his glory. We will be able to worship God in his very near presence and do as He's created us to do for all eternity.
Interestingly there will no longer be marriages, we will be more like you would imagine angels to be....completely content in our singleness. Second, this quote doesn't even assert that. Like life now, businesses running, sports, entertainment..." does not indicate people reprogrammed with a single thought, a single desire.
Quote:I'm in the position of an outsider trying to make sense of sorts of all the loose and contradictory threads.
It seems more like you're trying to make nonsense of the varying positions and invent contradictions where they don't exist. THat doesn;t bother me, but let's call a spade a spade.
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 7, 2012 at 5:58 pm
Actually, I thought my use of the phrase "we've seen" was pretty straightforward, as in "we've seen proposed in this thread", but whatever. As to the contradictions in the positions presented, I don't need to go to the trouble of inventing them. So far they've come pre-contradicted. It's not my fault if they make more nonsense than sense; I merely solicited the comments, I didn't make them.
Clearly the use of phrases such as "there will be no more sin or suffering and everyone will love the LORD and do all things to his glory. We will be able to worship God in his very near presence and do as He's created us to do for all eternity" suggest something different to you than they did to me. That's fine, that's the name of the game. It would be such a dull world if we all agreed with each other, wouldn't it? Sort of the point of what I hoped to get across, really.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 7, 2012 at 6:11 pm
(November 7, 2012 at 5:58 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Actually, I thought my use of the phrase "we've seen" was pretty straightforward, as in "we've seen proposed in this thread", but whatever. As to the contradictions in the positions presented, I don't need to go to the trouble of inventing them. So far they've come pre-contradicted. It's not my fault if they make more nonsense than sense; I merely solicited the comments, I didn't make them. You haven't noted contradictions, just differences.
Quote:Clearly the use of phrases such as "there will be no more sin or suffering and everyone will love the LORD and do all things to his glory. We will be able to worship God in his very near presence and do as He's created us to do for all eternity" suggest something different to you than they did to me.
When they follow " It will be like life now, businesses running, sports, entertainment...," they certainly don't imply a single thought and single desire to me. I don't see how you can engage in business, sports and entertainment if you only have a single thought in your head.
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 7, 2012 at 6:14 pm
Nor can I. Might be better to ask Jeff next time he's online.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 7, 2012 at 6:15 pm
"Having a single thought in your head"? Sounds like my compulsive thought loops.
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 7, 2012 at 6:24 pm
I've often been accused of having a mind like a Welsh railway (single track and absolutely filthy). Even that would get boring after a few million years, I suspect.
Thought loops? Isn't that some kind of conceptual breakfast cereal?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 7, 2012 at 10:55 pm
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 8, 2012 at 1:54 am
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2012 at 2:14 am by Godscreated.)
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: What do you do in Heaven?
November 8, 2012 at 2:15 am
(November 8, 2012 at 1:54 am)Godschild Wrote: What ever it is God has for us will be of total joy, just because your insignificant brain can not grasp the greatness of God does not mean His infinite wisdom will not have great and infinite things to enjoy.
Total joy? Who is defining joy? What then is total joy?
Who the fuck are you to proclaim that another human brain is 'insignificant'? I suppose you assume your brain to be significant. A convenient and meaningless distinction.
Your infinite wise god is second rate. A proper god would have no problem creating obedient humans. Your god's fucking book proves my point.
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