Is black (or white) magic real?

[Darkstar]

No, no, not them. Before I say anything else, the obvious answer is no. Satanists (well,at least some) maintain that they are, but this thread is not about them. It is about this:

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Exodus 22:18 (KJV) Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

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Exodus 22:18 “Do not allow a sorceress to live.

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What does it mean? What is a witch/sorceress? This is the word of god, supposedly infalliable, and yet it is claiming that witches/sorceresses actually exist. Let's see what it means.

So, I find myself on this page, and I click on the explanatory note for "sorceress", and it brings up this list, so I look at it and find these verses listed and do some research, and here is what I have found:

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Deuteronomy 18:9-11
When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

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So, here is another warning against sorcery. There are a number of passages warning against mediums and spiritualists, but we can assume that sorceresses (what about males?) can't actually do anything, right? But what about those spells?

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Isaiah 47:9
Both of these will overtake you
in a moment, on a single day:
loss of children and widowhood.
They will come upon you in full measure,
in spite of your many sorceries
and all your potent spells.

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Now this is unusual. The spells are referred to as 'potent', implying that actual witches exist, and can use magic. But is there an instance in the bible where a human performs outright magic? (as in, not miracles granted by god, but actual magic)

There is:

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Exodus 7:11-12
Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs.

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What does it all mean? I know what the atheists will say, but what do you theists think? Was there once a time when humans could use magic? And can we still use that power today? (if not, then why not?)

[The Grand Nudger]

Ah, the famous Battle of the Dragons at Pharoahs court.

Try Young's for this one..I love it, fuck all the snake nonsense.....monsters!

Now, as an interesting note, some apologists will tell you that the "witch" in question is more accurately a poisoner or an assassin....and that this is the compelling reason for the charge. With regards to the battle royale at the court of pharoah you'll hear some grumblings about how the "magicians" used tricks -magic isn't real, you see....except Aaron's magic (their magic)- and that shit is as serious as dick cancer....

On a more sane note, it just means that the people who authored these fairy tales believed in and were suspicious of/hostile to sorcerers, witches, oracles and the like. Not exactly uncommon for the time, or for human beings in general.

[Napoléon]

Magic ain't real no matter what colour it is.

[John V]

Darkstar = racist bastard!

[downbeatplumb]

Darkstar = racist bastard!

Is he?
why?

[LastPoet]

Darkstar = racist bastard!

Are you going into 'vinny' mode?

[Drich]

It's not the magic that is real. It's the Denomic forces that one invites in that is.

[The Grand Nudger]

How do those demonic forces accomplish their task Drich? What are demonic forces composed of to begin with...and how did they come to be again?

Magic, magic.....oh, and magic.

[Napoléon]

It's not the magic that is real. It's the Denomic forces that one invites in that is.

It's always nice to be reminded that there are adults out there who really do believe in childish fantasies.

Nice one Drich.

[John V]

Darkstar = racist bastard!

Is he?
why?

Differentiating between black and white magic. I would think you enlightened atheist types would be color blind regarding it.