What is a proof?

[Muslim Scholar]

This is not a debate, this thread is more educational
Give your thoughts, links, references and your beliefs

What are the types of proofs?
How to prove a statements?
How to disprove a statements?
What is impossible?

What are the basic premises that all agree on?

I don't know what everyone agrees on. It depends what you're trying to prove.

NO, it doesn't
Logical proofs methods are generally accepted

But from what I saw, many Atheists (theists sometimes) are ready to refute logic itself to falsify any opposing opinion

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I seem to be a little late here, but as a historian, I was taught to appreciate the difference between proof and evidence as distinct but related concepts:

A proof is an evaluated meaning of what evidence tells one in relation to a question, which gives a sound basis towards or against a hypothesis or theory.
Evidence is an observation, material, or other clue that can be used to lend credence towards the validation or rejection of a hypothesis or theory if its meaning in regards to the question being asked can be deciphered properly.

For instance, a bullet casing found at the scene of a murder is evidence, but what it means in connection to the question at hand is proof, should the meaning be deciphered.

Proof in this context is what the meaning evidence gives to the observer when the evidence is evaluated in terms of the question being asked, and how it can apply to the proposed hypothesis or theory. It's taken from the mathematical model of proof where using known variables one can bring about a conclusion using a mathematical model, which admittedly I don't fully comprehend since I'm not terribly math savvy, but that's the gist of it. For instance don't ask me how Steven Hawking made 2+2 equal 5, because I don't know! >m<

Very good, I agree
While proofs are more convincing
but sometimes evidences are enough to direct us toward the right direction/belief

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Another important question

What are the premises that are accepted by all people?
What is the definition of impossible and give examples?

[xXUKAtheistForTheTruthXx]

This is not a debate, this thread is more educational
Give your thoughts, links, references and your beliefs

What are the types of proofs?
How to prove a statements?
How to disprove a statements?
What is impossible?

What are the basic premises that all agree on?

proof (prf)
n.
1. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
2.
a. The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
b. A statement or argument used in such a validation.
3.
a. Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
b. The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.
4. Determination of the quality of something by testing; trial: put one's beliefs to the proof.
5. Law The result or effect of evidence; the establishment or denial of a fact by evidence.
6. The alcoholic strength of a liquor, expressed by a number that is twice the percentage by volume of alcohol present.
7. Printing
a. A trial sheet of printed material that is made to be checked and corrected. Also called proof sheet.
b. A trial impression of a plate, stone, or block taken at any of various stages in engraving.
8.
a. A trial photographic print.
b. Any of a limited number of newly minted coins or medals struck as specimens and for collectors from a new die on a polished planchet.
9. Archaic Proven impenetrability: "I was clothed in Armor of proof" (John Bunyan).
adj.
1. Fully or successfully resistant; impervious. Often used in combination: waterproof watches; a fireproof cellar door.
2. Of standard alcoholic strength.
3. Used in proving or making corrections.
v. proofed, proof·ing, proofs
v.tr.
1. Printing
a. To make a trial impression of (printed or engraved matter).
b. To proofread (copy).
2.
a. To activate (dormant dry yeast) by adding water.
b. To work (dough) into proper lightness.
3. To treat so as to make resistant: proof a fabric against shrinkage.
v.intr.
1. Printing To proofread.
2. To become properly light for cooking: The batter proofed overnight.

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[Middle English prove, preve, from Anglo-Norman prove and from Old French prueve, both from Late Latin proba, from Latin probre, to prove; see prove.]

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[Muslim Scholar]

I see from other threads that you are usually try to refute a religion by contradictions you find in it.

Does a contradiction means that it is not from God?
What the difference between a contradiction and a Paradox?

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I see from other threads that you are usually try to refute a religion by contradictions you find in it.

Does a contradiction means that it is not from God?
What the difference between a contradiction and a Paradox?

[EGross]

I see from other threads that you are usually try to refute a religion by contradictions you find in it.

Does a contradiction means that it is not from God?

Yes. Otherwise it is a flawed message since the requirement of a perfect being is that his communications be perfect. And if the human channel was flawed, then the entire message is discarded.

If my grandchild told me that "Mommy said she is going to the moon and will be back in 20 minutes", I would discount the entire message and try to call his mother to confirm. And with the lack of any real prophets these days (how convenient), nobody can confirm anything from any religion that has someone, at the beginning, claiming that God told them these things, and then, this chatty God, just clamped shut and went to Disneyland.

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What is a Paradox

Which is not the same as a contradiction.

A paradox: In Islam, after a person dies, and he goes to Jahannam, he will eat bitter plants. Obviously the dead have no need for food, so the paradox is assuming that these plants are real and it is not a metaphor.

It is a contadiction to believe in a good and loving God when he makes a Hell where only 1% of His believers will escape it, and then make it so well organized in 7 levels, each level for different kinds of people, a variety of demons, eternal fire, smoke, torture, which really is more asscoiated with the Marquis De Sade then a Good deity.

Any religion that has a hell, makes it to control the ignorant. The more complex the hell, the more controlling the religion. Mohammend probably stole that idea from the Church, and it served him well. But the problem with having a religion to subdue freedom is that, in the end, freedom wins.

[Cyberman]

I see from other threads that you are usually try to refute a religion by contradictions you find in it.

Does a contradiction means that it is not from God?

Yes. Otherwise it is a flawed message since the requirement of a perfect being is that his communications be perfect. And if the human channel was flawed, then the entire message is discarded.

The notion that any god worthy of the name would propagate such vital communications via convoluted and contradictory mythology requiring interpretation, using fallible human language unique to specific regions at certain specific points in history, is already a major strike against the validity of any message that it may have been trying to convey. Or further, against the existence, or at least the motives, of that god.

[xXUKAtheistForTheTruthXx]

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This is not a debate, this thread is more educational
Give your thoughts, links, references and your beliefs

What are the types of proofs?
How to prove a statements?
How to disprove a statements?
What is impossible?

What are the basic premises that all agree on?

proof (prf)
n.
1. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
2.
a. The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
b. A statement or argument used in such a validation.
3.
a. Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
b. The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.
4. Determination of the quality of something by testing; trial: put one's beliefs to the proof.
5. Law The result or effect of evidence; the establishment or denial of a fact by evidence.
6. The alcoholic strength of a liquor, expressed by a number that is twice the percentage by volume of alcohol present.
7. Printing
a. A trial sheet of printed material that is made to be checked and corrected. Also called proof sheet.
b. A trial impression of a plate, stone, or block taken at any of various stages in engraving.
8.
a. A trial photographic print.
b. Any of a limited number of newly minted coins or medals struck as specimens and for collectors from a new die on a polished planchet.
9. Archaic Proven impenetrability: "I was clothed in Armor of proof" (John Bunyan).
adj.
1. Fully or successfully resistant; impervious. Often used in combination: waterproof watches; a fireproof cellar door.
2. Of standard alcoholic strength.
3. Used in proving or making corrections.
v. proofed, proof·ing, proofs
v.tr.
1. Printing
a. To make a trial impression of (printed or engraved matter).
b. To proofread (copy).
2.
a. To activate (dormant dry yeast) by adding water.
b. To work (dough) into proper lightness.
3. To treat so as to make resistant: proof a fabric against shrinkage.
v.intr.
1. Printing To proofread.
2. To become properly light for cooking: The batter proofed overnight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English prove, preve, from Anglo-Norman prove and from Old French prueve, both from Late Latin proba, from Latin probre, to prove; see prove.]

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Let me show you again, Mr.Ultra-Religious Smartass

[EGross]

Have you ever wondered, why a deity would pick someone with questionable sanity to send "his word" instead of just getting on his holy P.A. system and saying "NOW HEAR THIS. THIS IS GOD TALKING! STOP BEING SUCH DICKHEADS! THAT IS ALL. [CLICK]". You know, making a clear statement that everyone can hear? Instead we get the old "mysterious ways" gambit, and "he doesn't want to force you to do things you don't want to do so he can torture you for all eternity later on". Crap like that.

[LastPoet]

Have you ever wondered, why a deity would pick someone with questionable sanity to send "his word" instead of just getting on his holy P.A. system and saying "NOW HEAR THIS. THIS IS GOD TALKING! STOP BEING SUCH DICKHEADS! THAT IS ALL. [CLICK]". You know, making a clear statement that everyone can hear? Instead we get the old "mysterious ways" gambit, and "he doesn't want to force you to do things you don't want to do so he can torture you for all eternity later on". Crap like that.

God likes to hide?

[EGross]

She/He apparently has "issues".

[Muslim Scholar]

I see from other threads that you are usually try to refute a religion by contradictions you find in it.

Does a contradiction means that it is not from God?

Yes. Otherwise it is a flawed message since the requirement of a perfect being is that his communications be perfect. And if the human channel was flawed, then the entire message is discarded.

I agree with you, a true religion MUST have a way to convince people that it is from God and it should not have any REAL contradictions

A paradox: In Islam, after a person dies, and he goes to Jahannam, he will eat bitter plants. Obviously the dead have no need for food, so the paradox is assuming that these plants are real and it is not a metaphor.

It is not a paradox because you don't know what will happen after people are dying, it is a probable contradiction.

This is my point
A Logical Paradox is something that is contradicting (logically) with itself
Having a square that has non-equal sides
A contradiction is a conflict in your understanding of some statement, it can be true or false

It is a contadiction to believe in a good and loving God when he makes a Hell where only 1% of His believers will escape it, and then make it so well organized in 7 levels, each level for different kinds of people, a variety of demons, eternal fire, smoke, torture, which really is more asscoiated with the Marquis De Sade then a Good deity.

If they deserve hell then it is not a contradiction

Any religion that has a hell, makes it to control the ignorant. The more complex the hell, the more controlling the religion. Mohammend probably stole that idea from the Church, and it served him well. But the problem with having a religion to subdue freedom is that, in the end, freedom wins.

Controlling is not bad as we are slaves