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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 2:05 pm
(March 10, 2013 at 2:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: To be without belief in God, is to be without belief in a theocracy. That is a political statement, whether one wants to intend it or not.
The same is true of Islam. If you believe in Islam, you believe a state should implement religious laws.
In the past, if you were an Atheist, you deny the legitimization of "Kings" or "Caliphs" by "Divine Right". Therefore you would be making a significant political statement by with drawing belief in God.
That is very true. For that reason, atheism is an extremely political movement, because so much is at stake.
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 2:06 pm
The following logic is used:
Atheism implies one doesn't believe in God(s).
Not believing in God(s) implies not believing in a theocracy.
Not believing in a theocracy implies a political stance.
Therefore Atheism implies a political stance.
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 2:10 pm
(March 10, 2013 at 2:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: To be without belief in God, is to be without belief in a theocracy. That is a political statement, whether one wants to intend it or not.
The same is true of Islam. If you believe in Islam, you believe a state should implement religious laws.
In the past, if you were an Atheist, you deny the legitimization of "Kings" or "Caliphs" by "Divine Right". Therefore you would be making a significant political statement by with drawing belief in God.
That is why I support the separation of state and church MK. Any possible being that remains unproven, should stay the fuck out of legislation, My life shouldn't be ruled by other people's delusions.
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 2:13 pm
(March 10, 2013 at 2:10 pm)LastPoet Wrote: That is why I support the separation of state and church MK. Any possible being that remains unproven, should stay the fuck out of legislation, My life shouldn't be ruled by other people's delusions.
I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat. I believe we shouldn't force the majority to not implement religion or religious laws while they believe in their religion. I believe we should convince the majority religion is wrong - therefore - they must try to base their laws on "good will" "perception" and "logic".
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 2:15 pm
(March 10, 2013 at 2:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The following logic is used:
Atheism implies one doesn't believe in God(s).
Not believing in God(s) implies not believing in a theocracy.
Not believing in a theocracy implies a political stance.
Therefore Atheism implies a political stance.
That is fucking wrong! Suppose an atheist, that gains power through lying and deceivance, then he becomes a religious leader and keeps it going in his theocracy. This blows your third premise out of the water.
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 2:16 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2013 at 2:19 pm by Mystic.)
(March 10, 2013 at 2:15 pm)LastPoet Wrote: (March 10, 2013 at 2:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The following logic is used:
Atheism implies one doesn't believe in God(s).
Not believing in God(s) implies not believing in a theocracy.
Not believing in a theocracy implies a political stance.
Therefore Atheism implies a political stance.
That is fucking wrong! Suppose an atheist, that gains power through lying and deceivance, then he becomes a religious leader and keeps it going in his theocracy. This blows your third premise out of the water.
Well no. His real belief is that theocracy is a hoax - therefore - that is his inward political stance. That is what makes him a deceiver.
I suspect the Ummayads were like that. They didn't really believe in Islam which is why they killed the offspring of Fatima.
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 2:21 pm
Atheism only implies a political stance when laws are based under religious reasoning, why can't people understand this? I'm almost tired of saying, you want to end atheism? End religion.
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 2:35 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2013 at 2:42 pm by Mystic.)
(March 10, 2013 at 2:21 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Atheism only implies a political stance when laws are based under religious reasoning, why can't people understand this? I'm almost tired of saying, you want to end atheism? End religion.
Heh...it's not a bad thing to have a political stance. It's just that the cliche that atheism only implies disbelief in God(s) is gone. It implies a lot more then that.
Aside from political stance, it implies an ethical stance, of not following morals through authority of the God(s).
So you have a political stance and moral stance - that believers often feel threatened by.
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 4:23 pm
Absolutely wrong. You can think a theocracy is okay and still be atheist. You do not have to believe in the god of that theocracy. If you want to go with this implies that implies that implies that, you can pretty much reach any conclusion based on one being an atheist. As an atheist, allow me to make this pointedly clear. The only thing atheism is is a lack of belief in a god or gods. That is all there is. There is no political statement, moral statement, etc. involved.
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RE: A Small Census
March 10, 2013 at 4:28 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2013 at 4:32 pm by Mystic.)
(March 10, 2013 at 4:23 pm)Shell B Wrote: Absolutely wrong. You can think a theocracy is okay and still be atheist.
But you don't believe society should run a theocratic state. The basis of it's laws is not believed by you. For example, if I lived in Iran, I would not believe Quran and Sunnah (hadiths) should be the basis of government (in one sense). I would (in another sense) however support the people upholding the government they believe in (theocratic).
However, I automatically don't believe that it's laws are legitimized in one sense, but I can support in another sense. The one sense is that I can't believe society should believe in Quran and Sunnah and rule by it.
The same is true of morals.
I can't however support that the world is to be ruled by a theocracy ( in one sense). Therefore I am making a political statement.
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