Poll: Abortion for minors.

[Violet]

Sure EvF, i put [ b ] [ /b ] around them to dissect them from my reply, then i felt too lazy to add the quotes back, though it really would have only taken me another 10 seconds, now that i think about it.

Hindsight , that which unfailingly makes one feel silly about themself.

[fr0d0]

So why is it a combination of the words "Christian" and "anarchist"? Unless I'm making some big mistake here about how you got the word...

It's an awesome book by Dave Andrews and not some random conjunction. It referenes a side of Christianity that is a rebellion against the status quo. Christ comes in peace to divide. That sorta bullshit.

[Violet]

85.7% of people here think the way i do about this I think that is a good sign. A pity that same 85.7% can't make the rules in this country.

[fr0d0]

It does give them the power to do so, and it is something horrible to be forced into. If a girl will not otherwise tell her parents that she is pregnant: those parents were not worth telling in the first place. That is why this bill is wrong... because it lets bad parents stop an abortion from happening. Society's idea of 'adult' is wrong, Fr0do... and in it being wrong: millions of 'children' suffer and/or are held back from success. Nobody... ever... has... the... right... to... do... that. Not one person... not 10 people... not a society... and not gods.

Surely this isn't saying that counseling and other forms of support to prevent child abuse will stop happening is it? Why so negative? Why does this signal the end of this world as you know it? What about the protection of the children by the parents? It seems you're restricting their rights as well. I know the care workers I know, even though they do their very best in the work they do, can in no way support anyone with the meagre resources at their disposal. Care is shoddy and sparse at best, and so is assessment. In a properly functioning family, which has to be the majority, the standard of care is far far greater than anything society provides.
So you think society is wrong in defining an adult?? Who decides that then? No one? You'd have no protection for children?

A person who admits to their faults, their crimes, their accidents... that person is worth a thousand who would lie about their faults, justify their crimes, and deny their accidents. The former is humble... it is truthful... while their faults, crimes, and accidents may be terrible: those people are not truly evil. It is those from the latter group, those like Hitler... like Stalin... like Osama Bin Laden... those people are truly evil.

Not even those people are truly evil. They were just people doing very bad stuff.

Laws are generally formulated to result in a least harm scenario? What was American slavery again? What is this anti-abortion bill? How about the death penalty, and torture laws? And anti-women's rights laws that are in so many Muslim countries right now? Least harm? Really?

Fair point. Which doesn't help your argument. This law seems to be only positive in intention, & not restrictive. As I've pointed out, there seem to be only benefits and not pitfalls as you suggest, unless you can provide more information.

[Violet]

Then we are saying the same thing Fr0do. I say it would be oppressive and damaging to the children to be forced to go to their parents to ask if they can abort (70% here clearly wouldn't let them abort, and most of that 70% would make their child's life hell in doing so), be in a load of trouble, and still not get the abortion out of the deal. Which leaves only two real options for the child landed into unwanted pregnancy: one: illegal methods, or two: hell for life (mother or child).

one: Since they have to go through illegal channels to get this done, they are exposed to all of the dangers of illegality. Many possible methods of doing so can cause great harm to the person undergoing them. There are many problems associated with many different methods in all of these, and to think that a simple abortion would let one escape the pregnancy quite whole.

two: life becomes a living hell. Being a teen mom is horrible, absolutely horrible, and i don't envy the position of their baby either. The mother has to work extremely hard to not only deal with the baby... but also school, work, social life, their economics... and they have to fight to take care of a baby they were unprepared to have, did not want to have... trapped in a system they cannot get out of. There is of course adoption, but adoption is horrible on children (unless they get very lucky), because many who would adopt are very irresponsible. It also makes the mother feel guilty (in cases i've seen), and takes a great deal of time for them to recover. You also can't win back those 9 months wasted raising an unwanted child with a population crisis upon our world.

There are benefits to this? Can you honestly see ANY benefit to this?

How does this not have a cruel intent? Any way i look at it... i see only tyranny.

[Retorth]

Well I think such a law especially in countries where underage sex is rampant isn't such a bad one...I mean sure there are good and bad points for just about everything in life...consider the fact that by requiring parental consent, it encourages the child to talk to their parents and not keep it a dark secret forever.

A lot of kids as most of you mentioned, are afraid of talking to their parents about such a thing.This is not always due just to the parents being the kind who would beat them up, making the child afraid to talk to them. Abortion is not just a small matter...it's a huge deal and therefore scary too. There are loving parents who will love and support their child and not beat them up just because they got knocked up too.

With such a rule, though I know it is a RULE therefore you don't have a choice, but it will still serve as a way of helping kids talk to their parents....again, not all parents just beat their kids or throw them out of the house...some parents do try and help. I'm sure those of you here who are parents would be loving a supporting too =)

[Violet]

I'm sure many parents do Retorth... but ours is not a perfect world, and this law leaves children at the mercy of their parents... and some parents never should have been parents, and are more equatable to monsters than to anything else.

That is why this law MUST NOT be passed... because it destroys lives... lives of people who are already fighting.... Because some parents DO beat their kids, and throw them out of the house...

Do you know what is more important than this law? That parents be more than just parents... that they be friends to their children. Children go to their friends first... it is not like they don't have anyone helping them figure out what to do.... unless they don't have friends to go to.

[Retorth]

At the end of the day, children still need their parents. Like I said, which you agreed, not all parents are as bad as you describe. Why do you take such an incredible dim view such as "at the mercy of their parents"? Honestly, that is sad.

I understand what you are saying and I do agree that sometimes it would be better for the child to make her own decisions then go home and get beat up and demoralized by her parents, but as you said, this isn't a perfect world. Would you rather have your kids going out and having sex knowing they don't need to care what you think because they can do whatever they like? Kids are kids for a reason. They need parental guidance at such a young age. This is why we still need parents to guide and assist them especially at such crucial times.

You said the most important thing is that parents be more then parents but again I quote you, this isn't a perfect world.

Anyway, to sum this all up, Indeed I agree with some of what you say. Where sadistic, unloving parents are concerned, kids should not need to go to them for permission for anything. But where loving parents are concerned, such a law will be a disadvantage. I suppose it all depends on circumstance. There is no right and wrong in my opinion for such a rule. It has its advantages and disadvantages.

[Violet]

Therefore there must be exceptions to the presented law. I think it wiser that the child who wants to get an abortion visit a counselor, and talk to them about it. That is a law i could respect. There is only advantage in that law.

[Retorth]

Hmm thats not a bad idea at all actually... Yeah a law that states a child MUST visit a counselor if she wants an abortion. Win-win situation