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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:21 am
(March 24, 2013 at 12:14 am)jstrodel Wrote: Read a few books from a Christian perspective. Try and understand what Christianity is.
Where to begin with the drivel posted above. First of all, I prefer condensed quoting. It is no offense to you. It is just that I abhor when people do not know how to properly quote so that one does not have to wade through a bunch of crap in order to understand the point attempting to be made.
The above that you posted was plain drivel. It was basically an homage to your ego, whom you claim is God. I was raised with religion, so do not inform me that I know nothing about it. When one finally becomes free of the strangle hold that religion has on anyone dumb enough to remain with it due to a misguided conception of love, one usually does not return to it.
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:24 am
(March 23, 2013 at 11:42 pm)jstrodel Wrote: No you didn't. You never lived a holy life. You make that judgment because you start from the conclusion and work backward. Which is fine, since that's the same thing I do when I point out that...
jstrodel Wrote:Holiness is when your eyes open and you see the glory of God. It is intensely pleasurable and satisfying to experience the glory of God. No you haven't. You've never seen the glory of god. You're hallucinating because you've got some mental problems, possibly some deep psychosis at work. Insanity is when you open your eyes and think you see god, and derive feelings of intense pleasure and satisfaction from something that isn't really there.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:25 am
You said religion has a misguided conception of love. What do you think the correct conception of love is? How do you know what that is?
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:26 am
(March 23, 2013 at 11:59 pm)jstrodel Wrote: (March 23, 2013 at 11:54 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: How would you know? Are you clairvoyant, perhaps?
Because everyone who lives a holy life experiences God and enjoys God. God is enjoyable and knowable. The person that said they lived a holy life did not. Living a holy life is not following a bunch of rules, it is enjoying God.
If you never enjoyed God, you were never saved, or at least never experienced holiness. Holiness is not self denial, holiness is experiencing the glory of God.
It is not like following religious rules, it is like being married. God is a good husband. The people that say they have lived a holy life have not, to live a holy life is to be married to God. If you are married to God, you know it. If you claim to have done religious things, you were never married to God.
If you lived a holy life, you would know it. Holiness is being married to God. It isn't religion, it is rules, etc. Holiness is when God comes and lives inside of you and opens your eyes to His glory. God is glorious.
Anyone who says that they have known God but been unimpressed with God has not known God.
Most Christians that go to church now and again are not really living a holy life. Holiness takes a lot of work. The person who lives a holy life would die for God. They would want to, God changes your heart. It makes everything else feel less important. You die inside. It is a big deal. You would know if you felt it. I don't think it is easy for people to leave.
It is very easy to leave psuedo-Christianity, or religious Christianity. Many people in life give up seeking God, that is too bad, it is there loss and weakness. God is findable, and does not make people wait in the dark their whole life to know if God is there. But to know God, requires holiness. Most people don't want to be holy, so they go to hell. It is too bad, but God wants people to come to heaven to be His husband.
I see a metric fuckton of platitudes and assertions above.
Prove it.
You can't, though, can you? Because it resides exclusively inside your head.
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:27 am
(March 24, 2013 at 12:24 am)Tonus Wrote: (March 23, 2013 at 11:42 pm)jstrodel Wrote: No you didn't. You never lived a holy life. You make that judgment because you start from the conclusion and work backward. Which is fine, since that's the same thing I do when I point out that...
jstrodel Wrote:Holiness is when your eyes open and you see the glory of God. It is intensely pleasurable and satisfying to experience the glory of God. No you haven't. You've never seen the glory of god. You're hallucinating because you've got some mental problems, possibly some deep psychosis at work. Insanity is when you open your eyes and think you see god, and derive feelings of intense pleasure and satisfaction from something that isn't really there.
You don't have any evidence to support your belief that I am psychotic. That is a way that you justify your belief system. You have no way of knowing whether I am telling the truth or not.
I know that you have never lived a holy life because people that have lived a holy life never say that it was uneventful. You lived a religious life. I am not guessing, I know this because the nature of holiness is that when you experience God, you are always changed, every single time. There has never been a person who came to God who God didn't change. The question is the way that you did it.
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:28 am
(March 24, 2013 at 12:25 am)jstrodel Wrote: What do you think the correct conception of love is?
Love is certainly not glorifying a tyrannical psychopath that demands more from humanity than it can give according to his obsessive need for undue acknowledgment.
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:30 am
(March 24, 2013 at 12:27 am)jstrodel Wrote: You don't have any evidence to support your belief that I am psychotic. That is a way that you justify your belief system. You have no way of knowing whether I am telling the truth or not. I have your own declarations as evidence that you are, at the very least, hallucinating. In the same way that you can claim to know that I never lived a holy life, I can claim that you have never experienced god. Especially since you are defining a holy life as you please, whereas it's pretty commonly accepted that people who see god and talk with him are not in their right minds.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:32 am
(This post was last modified: March 24, 2013 at 12:33 am by jstrodel.)
(March 24, 2013 at 12:26 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (March 23, 2013 at 11:59 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Because everyone who lives a holy life experiences God and enjoys God. God is enjoyable and knowable. The person that said they lived a holy life did not. Living a holy life is not following a bunch of rules, it is enjoying God.
If you never enjoyed God, you were never saved, or at least never experienced holiness. Holiness is not self denial, holiness is experiencing the glory of God.
It is not like following religious rules, it is like being married. God is a good husband. The people that say they have lived a holy life have not, to live a holy life is to be married to God. If you are married to God, you know it. If you claim to have done religious things, you were never married to God.
If you lived a holy life, you would know it. Holiness is being married to God. It isn't religion, it is rules, etc. Holiness is when God comes and lives inside of you and opens your eyes to His glory. God is glorious.
Anyone who says that they have known God but been unimpressed with God has not known God.
Most Christians that go to church now and again are not really living a holy life. Holiness takes a lot of work. The person who lives a holy life would die for God. They would want to, God changes your heart. It makes everything else feel less important. You die inside. It is a big deal. You would know if you felt it. I don't think it is easy for people to leave.
It is very easy to leave psuedo-Christianity, or religious Christianity. Many people in life give up seeking God, that is too bad, it is there loss and weakness. God is findable, and does not make people wait in the dark their whole life to know if God is there. But to know God, requires holiness. Most people don't want to be holy, so they go to hell. It is too bad, but God wants people to come to heaven to be His husband.
I see a metric fuckton of platitudes and assertions above.
Prove it.
You can't, though, can you? Because it resides exclusively inside your head.
Read the history of the Christian church. Learn about the men who were missionaries and spread the church and built orphanages and soup kitchens and traveled to the ends of the earth. Read about the martyrs and monastics and the characters throughout history that have lived the authentic life. And then live the same way that they lived, with the same level of zeal and intensity. There is your proof. You will see the same things happen to you, like I have. You can feel your heart burn inside and see the shekinah glory and see the miracles and the power of the Holy Ghost. It is real.
Or you can do this. You can take all that history and knowledge of the Christian faith, and you can greatly tame down the gospel to make it fit your sins and your easy American way of life. Then you can claim all those stories were false and there is no proof, since you tried Christianity and it didn't work.
Well, what did you do when you were a Christian? Did you live for the glory of God every day? Did you consciously recognize that everything in you had died and you have no use for the world around you except to love Jesus Christ?
If you never lived this life, your opinions about Christianity mean about as much as a guy with an IQ of 98 who smoked weed through math class and got a C and said "math sucks". Well, it may suck for him. I think math is beautiful.
The fact that you smoked weed and got a 98 does not prove that math sucks. It proves that you suck. The same goes for religion. Religion is basically performance driven. Salvation is not performance driven, but religion is. If you want to experience the glory of God, it is not God that needs to stop sucking, it is you. The reason that you failed at math is not that math sucks, it is that you suck.
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:34 am
(March 24, 2013 at 12:32 am)jstrodel Wrote: There is your proof.
Ray Comfort wanna-be, the word proof does not mean what you think it does.
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RE: Science and religion
March 24, 2013 at 12:36 am
(March 24, 2013 at 12:30 am)Tonus Wrote: (March 24, 2013 at 12:27 am)jstrodel Wrote: You don't have any evidence to support your belief that I am psychotic. That is a way that you justify your belief system. You have no way of knowing whether I am telling the truth or not. I have your own declarations as evidence that you are, at the very least, hallucinating. In the same way that you can claim to know that I never lived a holy life, I can claim that you have never experienced god. Especially since you are defining a holy life as you please, whereas it's pretty commonly accepted that people who see god and talk with him are not in their right minds.
Put it in formal logic. You will get something like this:
1. This person claims to have experience God
2. if someone claims to experience God because God does not exist, they are hallucinating
3. This person is hallucinating (MP 1,2)
That is about as logical as it gets. You are presupposing that God does not exist in order to justify describing my behavior as hallucinating.
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